Comments on: I Stand In Front Of You, I Take The Force Of The Blow

By: SmileySam

SmileySam — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:24:40 +0000

Anyone can be tried for Torture by another country because of what is known as “Universal Jurisdiction”. The bringing of charges is the easy part. Getting them to trial is the hard part and why neither Rumfeld or Kissinger travel aboard. Both have had to have been hustled out a foreign country ahead of arrest or being served. This was discussed indepth during a Congressional hearing last year. At that hear Prof. Sands also testified he had been asked by and agree to help a couple foreign governments investigate and prepare charges for when the next US Pres. fails to clean our own house. I’m fairly sure you will see Bush charged overseas sometime in the next 2 yrs. The rumors are fairly well sourced at this point but people have yet to commit.

By: BMiller224

BMiller224 — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:46:06 +0000

I’m not an attorney or a specialist in this area. But I would think that the US could prosecute a case based on international law in US courts. The Military Commissions Act that Spencer describes may have closed off that avenue. And it may well preclude them from prosecuting anyone under separate US law.

But I think those cases could be prosecuted in US courts.

Another factor here of course is that anyone involved in this torture business could also be brought up on charges before the International Criminal Court if they get caught in a country that adheres to the ICC.

By: bobschacht

bobschacht — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:15:51 +0000

Thanks, Mary! I was hoping that you were lurking around, somewhere close!

Bob in HI

By: chicagodyke

chicagodyke — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:13:04 +0000

ah, Spencer. i love that song. thanks for putting it so perfectly into a blog post title.

By: woid

woid — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:01:55 +0000

The Scott Horton article at Harper’s is subscriber-only. Anybody have a liberated copy?

By: Mary

Mary — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:56:50 +0000

41/42 – cross post. The only reason some of the cases like the Uighurs have been proceeding in the US courts is bc parts of those statutes have been deemed illegal – not necessarily unconstitutional (part of the DTA issue was based on determination that the UCMJ incorported the Geneva Conventions and so they bent over backwords to find a way to interpret the DTA so as to preserve the Geneva Conventions application – something that the MCA was specifically drafted to try to supercede.

By: Mary

Mary — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:52:44 +0000

While you are analyzing the DTA and MCA, remember that chunks of both have already been treated as unconstitutional – they are both poorly drafted (although the MCA better than the DTA) pieces of cya for criminals crap.

OTOH, the bigger issue is that if the head of the prosecutorial branch of gov and the CIC is someone who doesn’t choose to have their agencies pursue the crimes, they don’t get pursued. Normal people can’t file criminal complaints – you need a prosecutor. Hell, we’ve needed a prosecutor for years and years now, and the most we get are paens to people like Comey who hand off US citizens on US soil for torture and follow up that act with a finale where they file affidavits invoking state secrets over DOJ’s role in the torture of a Canadian citizen.

And the big “secret” on the DTA isn’t John McCain’s role – it’s how everyone ignores Carl Levin’s role. It’s not about the nutcase Powerline and Corner ideologues invoking ticking time bombs in support of torturing children – it’s Charles Schumer doing the verysame thing. I’m just so darn thrilled that we’ve got so many of those good Dems in office now – things are sure to change.

By: bobschacht

bobschacht — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:52:35 +0000

So, the 2005 Detainee Treatment Act, and the MCA, make us look pretty bad. But have the Constitutionality of these been tested in the courts?

I hope that (A) Congress comes to its senses and amends these laws appropriately, and/or (B) these provisions are tested in the Courts and struck down. The Bush administration might have appealed, hoping for a favorable ruling in SCOTUS, but would Obama’s AG appeal?

Now’s not the time to give up the fight. Now’s the time to redouble our efforts to role back these perversions of American justice.

Bob in HI

By: SouthernDragon

SouthernDragon — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:52:32 +0000

Damn I’m gettin’ tired of resisting. I want it my way once in a while. *sigh* Yeah, I know, go to Burger King.

By: Hugh

Hugh — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:43:20 +0000

Resist and when or if we lose, bear witness to what happened.