Comments on: Evidence, Pls http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/ Wed, 05 Jan 2011 21:59:36 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: MikeD http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/#comment-11009 MikeD Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:39:52 +0000 http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/#comment-11009 <p>A lot of Iranian young people don’t remember the revolution, but i’ll hazard that quite a few more do remember parts of the cataclysmic war with their neighbor. Many probably lost parents to it. So i doubt they have developed very warm feelings toward Iraq by now. Add to that the suffering they saw Iraqis go through before anything like democracy even arguably arose there. The notion that Iranians are motivated by a desire to experience what their benighted cousins to the west have frankly deserves derision and mockery. You should have gone with what I assume is your standard reaction to Michael Golfarb when he is not begging to be taken seriously.</p> <p>What’s funny is the way he has to grovel for us to even recollect that chestnut of a crackpot geopolitical fantasy. I wish him well.</p> A lot of Iranian young people don’t remember the revolution, but i’ll hazard that quite a few more do remember parts of the cataclysmic war with their neighbor. Many probably lost parents to it. So i doubt they have developed very warm feelings toward Iraq by now. Add to that the suffering they saw Iraqis go through before anything like democracy even arguably arose there. The notion that Iranians are motivated by a desire to experience what their benighted cousins to the west have frankly deserves derision and mockery. You should have gone with what I assume is your standard reaction to Michael Golfarb when he is not begging to be taken seriously.

What’s funny is the way he has to grovel for us to even recollect that chestnut of a crackpot geopolitical fantasy. I wish him well.

]]> By: skylights http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/#comment-10998 skylights Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:30:01 +0000 http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/#comment-10998 <p>Right. “Oh geez, I wish we were an utter basket case like Iraq!” No.</p> Right. “Oh geez, I wish we were an utter basket case like Iraq!” No.

]]> By: Jymn http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/#comment-10977 Jymn Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:16:43 +0000 http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/#comment-10977 <p>Obama’s election has as much to do with Iranian expectations in their election as Iraq’s struggling ‘democracry’. I don’t think there is a whole lot of difference between the governments of Iran and Iraq. Iran has a larger educated class and a higher standard of living. Despite it being a theocracy, news of the west is widely available, especially to those educated in electronic media. Iraq may eventually evolve into a theocracy, anyway. There does not seem to be much envy in Iran at Iraq’s new government. But there does seem to be much enthusiasm for Obama, especially among the youth. That’s where change begins and grows. Maybe even a revolution of sorts.</p> Obama’s election has as much to do with Iranian expectations in their election as Iraq’s struggling ‘democracry’. I don’t think there is a whole lot of difference between the governments of Iran and Iraq. Iran has a larger educated class and a higher standard of living. Despite it being a theocracy, news of the west is widely available, especially to those educated in electronic media. Iraq may eventually evolve into a theocracy, anyway. There does not seem to be much envy in Iran at Iraq’s new government. But there does seem to be much enthusiasm for Obama, especially among the youth. That’s where change begins and grows. Maybe even a revolution of sorts.

]]> By: mikeyhemlok http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/#comment-10975 mikeyhemlok Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:56:28 +0000 http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/06/16/evidence-pls/#comment-10975 <p>Indeed.</p> <p>And for that matter, one of the reasons that there was such shock and outrage at the leadership’s handling of the election was that, within certain parameters, Iran WAS a functioning democracy. And prior to whatever happened there in the last week, a case could be made that the average Iranian had effectively the same level of individual freedom as the average Iraqi, with a greater opportunity to make a living and survive ’til dinner.</p> <p>Somehow I don’t think anybody in the region looks at what has become of Iraq and says “wow, that’s the model for a nation I want to live in”…</p> <p>mikey</p> Indeed.

And for that matter, one of the reasons that there was such shock and outrage at the leadership’s handling of the election was that, within certain parameters, Iran WAS a functioning democracy. And prior to whatever happened there in the last week, a case could be made that the average Iranian had effectively the same level of individual freedom as the average Iraqi, with a greater opportunity to make a living and survive ’til dinner.

Somehow I don’t think anybody in the region looks at what has become of Iraq and says “wow, that’s the model for a nation I want to live in”…

mikey

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