Unexpected developments at work. Today at Guantanamo Bay, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, long known to be the mastermind of Sept. 11, pleaded guilty to the attacks in their military tribunals! But it might all be undone by the fact of Mohammed’s torture.
Human Rights Watch, which is on hand at Guantanamo to assess the tribunals, sent out this statement:
“What should have been a major victory in holding the 9/11 defendants accountable for terrible crimes has been tainted by torture and an unfair military commissions process,” said Jennifer Daskal, senior counterterrorism counsel at Human Rights Watch. “These five men are known to have been mistreated and tortured during their years in CIA custody, including the acknowledged waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.”
Daskal continues:
Under the rules of the military commissions, a judge cannot accept a guilty plea unless he determines that the plea is voluntary and free of coercion.
“In light of the men’s severe mistreatment and torture, the judge should require a full and thorough factual inquiry to determine whether or not these pleas are voluntary,” Daskal said.
We know that KSM, as he’s known in the counterterrorism world, was waterboarded. Waterboarding is torture. Torture may have just cost the U.S. a guilty plea in a 9/11 tribunal. All thanks are due to George Bush, Dick Cheney, David Addington, Alberto Gonzales, Donald Rumsfeld, William Haynes, John Yoo, and George Tenet. Was torturing this evil man worth it?
Crossposted to The Streak.
Update: This just in from the ACLU’s Anthony Romero, who’s at GTMO today:
"No one should be surprised that a system that allows for serial torture and abuse and holds detainees for years without charging them or granting them access to attorneys has led the defendants to capitulate and seek to plead guilty. It’s abundantly clear that a coerced guilty plea resulting from years of torture and abuse would never have been accepted in a legitimate court and should not be accepted here. Anyone who believes that this is a victory for American justice is sadly mistaken. History will show that any guilty pleas in these proceedings were the result of an inhumane, unjust process designed to achieve a foregone conclusion.
"Ironically, the one open legal question is whether or not entering guilty pleas under these flawed military commissions will allow the government to seek the death penalty. The fact that it’s still unclear whether the government can secure death sentences through guilty pleas just underscores how fundamentally flawed the process was from the outset.
"This has been a legal farce from the beginning to the bitter end. And perhaps most cynically, this flawed process will dump three guilty pleas into the lap of President Obama’s new Justice Department along with the question of whether or not any of these defendants are competent to offer these pleas after years of torture and abuse."
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It wasn’t the only torture; they threatened and may have actually harmed his children. I view this as even worse than waterboarding; it’s absolutely beyond the pale, a clear signal that they’d slid into madness in their pursuit of the so-called truth.
That will likely be the counter defense: insanity drove them to this. But it won’t stop KSM from being released and becoming a greater threat than they could have imagined.
i have seen some of the current definitions of torture
Sleep deprivation, harsh words, waterboarding
I don’t agree, uniformed combatants get one definition, nonuniformed combatants should and historically have gotten another.
Long history of non-uniformed combatants getting harsher treatment than uniformed. How about the 8 germans at the end of WWII that were hanged, caught almost the day they arrived, i believe they were hanged after the war ended, hard to remember the detailed facts.
I suggest that you top eating hot dogs and meat in general – the process is quite bad to watch.
What I find most interesting is that the letter from KSM and the others to the judge is dated November 4. What were these guys told about the election and how it would come out?
Also, today is a Muslim holy day. Rotten time to have the proceeding.
Well, U.S. treatment of KSM has probably destroyed his ability to be a functioning human being. Look on the bright side. /s
It’s becoming clear, after all the books that have been written (The Dark Side, One Percent Doctrine, Shock Doctrine, etc.) that Cheney and his toadies knew that “enhanced interrogation techniques” would prevent fair trials; they didn’t care. They still don’t care. A sacrifice they were willing to make to be able to torture.
Cheney clearly went over the deep end after 9/11 (not too far for him to go) and paranoia ruled the day.
And I blame the congress for not impeaching them both when it had the chance and the law on its side.
I’m still pissed about it.
What Muslim holy day is it?
Ironically, according to the Miami Herald article, it is Eid al Adha, the Feast of the Sacrifice.
KSM and the others appear to be sacrificing themselves, while the US has sacrificed its moral standing.
This guy wants to confess according to press accounts and be martyred along with four others…My guess is that he’ll get his wish.
Thought it was probably Eid, but as that is a movable feast, I usually am unaware when it happens.
“Every conversation monitored under Bush’s warrantless domestic surveillance program is a missed opportunity to get someone who is talking with terrorists off the streets and behind bars.
Why? Because evidence obtained by Bush’s warrantless domestic spying program is probably not admissible in court. Convictions obtained with evidence from this program may be overturned.”
STOP RIGHT THERE! THINK.
Clearly the Bush Administration knew that to be true. So what EVIDENCE do you have that Bush actually wants potential terrorists prosecuted? How many terrorists have been CONVICTED AND SENTENCED since 9/11?
Do the math folks. Think like a criminal. The clearest explanation is often right under your nose. False flag terrorism is a TACTIC of the Mossad and the CIA. The terrorists are merely doing the bidding of this administration and their surrogates. Any actual TRIAL with TV CAMERAS and EVIDENCE would blow their entire operation.
If they really want to arrest AND CONVICT terrorists, they would absolutely follow the letter of the law. They CHOSE not to. Coincidence? NOT!
The Germans were uniformed, stripped off their uniforms, were armed, and were on specific sabotage missions. None of them were tortured. They were simply given military trials…as they would have if they had been caught in uniform on the battlefield. The “long history” you speak of ended with the establishment of the Geneva Conventions on Civilian vs. Non-Civilian Prisoners at the end of WW2. The Conventions were established to end the abuse of civilians targetted as some sort of “special class”.
If a civilian (out of uniform) commits a crime…they are to be treated in a criminal court…not a military court.
Many of these un-uniformed “combatants” in Gitmo were captured on their territory (recall that the US invaded Afghanistan) were turned over to the US for a bounty. The bulk had no evidence they were involved in any sort of combat with US forces, many were certainly not caught in any sort of sabotage or terrorist mission. The rationale for bringing them to Gitmo was, quite specifically, to keep them out of Afghani courts once they were re-established. And to seperate them from Afghani soil and “hope” that they would someday be reunited with their families.
All signatories of the Geneva Conventions are bound to its provisos…even when the other nation isn’t (but Afghanistan was also a signatory).
Given the evidence at their fingertips to justify impeachment proceedings, not the least of which was fraud, the failure of Congress to bring articles of impeachment is tantamount to misprision of felony.
From his POV it is a boast not a confession. He “confessed” to everything under the sun except for Pearl Harbor. (Stories about that are too old for me to remember links, but I’ll google & see if I can find anything useful.) That makes me skectical that he’s the guy behind just about anything. The most definitive thing on him that I remember is that he escaped the apt in Manilla when it blew up, so he was behind the plot to blow up in-flight aircraft, and that he managed to leave somewhere (Malaysia?) while U.S. dropped the ball on tracking him. Don’t remember much evidence besides his confession that he’s the mastermind he claims to be. Remember, one of the most important reasons for torture is to extract false confessions. Reason for that is to justify other measures that were already on the agenda and to have scapegoats to show govt “success.”
putting aside for the moment the moral depravity of using torture….. how exactly does it’s use make us any safer? the answer is that it doesn’t – in other words it is both stupid and wrong.
Apparently this latest desire to “confess” is recent and probably not coerced- four others have joined in the action to force the court to hear their “confessions”…
Don’t have any inside information- but the press accounts are that the five want the publicity more than life.
Heh. Googling “KSM confession” reveals a whole boatload of articles around March 07 that find his confessions ridiculous. Knock yourselves out.
Here’s just one:
http://www.time.com/time/world…..61,00.html
Simplist example: Danny Pearl murder. KSM boasts of it but apparently there’s decent evidence that he wasn’t involved.
KSM confession was revealed in March 07. Google it.
“…Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, long known to be the mastermind of Sept. 11…”
Long KNOWN by WHOM? Or are you being facetious?
GUANTANAMO BAY U.S. NAVAL BASE, Cuba (Reuters) – “The self-styled mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks and four co-defendants sent a note to a military judge at Guantanamo Monday saying they wanted to confess and plead guilty.
The judge said he would question the five, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected planner of the Sept. 11 attacks, to ensure that was their wish.”
(monday meaning today)
We know it because KSM said he was. See my 13. I am unaware of much other evidence. “Everyone” was saying that he was responsible before he was caught, so all the more reason to torture him into “confessing” it, to prove “they” were right. He was captured on March 1, 2003 and his “confession” was not revealed until March 2007. Sounds fishy to me. Dontcha think that if he gave it up right away, W wouldn’t have gotted the word out before the 04 elections?
Would you buy a used car from KSM? If not, why would you take his word on anything else, including being the mastermind of 9/11?
Well, as i said, one definition of torture does not fit all, wish the world was all so intelligent civilized as we all is. It would be the place our fathers remember that was not then either.
Ah yes, reading KSM’s wiki, the 9/11 Commish was one of the early entities that tied him to 9/11. Now that, in and of itself, is reason to doubt that he did it. /s
My 9/11 report is not where I am not and looking for their evidence online is too cumbersome, so if someone else wants to look, I’d appreciate it.
Beats me as to what’s really going on here- hopefully someone will do some great reporting soon.
Make that “not where I am now”
I’m never where I am not. *g*
–Buckaroo Bonzai
“They” are trying really hard to make sure we don’t find out. Gitmo’s been pretty opaque, but occassionally we get a gem of a story.
Nixon said ‘if the president does it, it’s not illegal’. Same with thing with torture. If we torture and say it’s not torture, it’s not torture!
Rule by word play.
-G
Heh. Went mucking about in 9/11 Commish report. It really is unworkable to do a good job online, but I tracked down a footnote to an early mention of info about KSM, and the source was “intelligence interrogation of KSM.” Which is exactly what I thought. He’s the only witness against himself. Some of the info from him was able to be verified by others (and some of them were tortured too), as he was clearly involved in a bunch of plots, but to take him at his word would be folly.
Absolutely correct. Any good soldier, once captured, will assume all responsibility, to protect his fellow soldiers and allies.
Greetings, all.
Found something funny the other day. Now since all the crap is happening with torture and the CIA is basically hand cuffed with their abilities to extract information from combatants, the CIA is now taking many of these guys off the battle field and handing them over to ‘local contacts’ that work outside the jurisdiction of the US Govt. I am guessing that these contacts use methods that make water boarding look like afternoon tea at the polo fields. Somehow they are still getting their information.
bullwhacky .. the UN Convention and the Geneva Conventions .. both of which we are signatories to do not mirror your confusion as to what torture is .. or might be ..
and as to the past:
there ya go .. Dust .. hasn’t changed a bit for those who’ve worn/wear the uniform for the past 233 years …
CIA water boarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 100 times in two weeks. If he wasn’t mentally ill before, I suspect he was after.
http://www.zimbio.com/Daniel+P…..HAMMED+100
mmmmm
what is injury? sleep deprivation? being lied to? waterboarding?
Just don’t know
United Nations Convention Against Torture:
there ya go .. now you too can “know” .. it’s not your personal decision.. the definition is a matter of law .. an individual’s particular or willful ignorance or inability to ascertain or understand doesn’t enter into the matter at all .. it’s a matter of definition not left to individual discretion ..
and ..doesn’t even have to be an “injury” ..
Geneva Conventions ..
Article 3
hope that clears this up ..
“1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms” well yeah – it does for them
the older i get, the less black and white I see, the more grey appears. Are these the rules the UN troops follow in the Congo?
the UN doesn’t have any troops i know of
heh heh heh – ok, the troops that wear the UN symbol on their uniform and drive the vehicles with the BIG UN painted on them, nice way of sidestepping, does not work though, now back to the congo
BTW jkat – wish i could just agree with you – i do in a philosophical kind of way – not in a real world kind of way. Wish i could see the world so black and riight, i mean white, i sees far too much grey.