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	<title>Comments on: As They Were Picking Up The Dead Out Of The Broken Glass Yes It&#8217;s Number One, The Radio Said, Groovy Times Have Come To Pass</title>
	<atom:link href="http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/</link>
	<description>Just another Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: cobernicus</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5263</link>
		<dc:creator>cobernicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5263</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Per the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/29/israeli-assault-targets-s_n_153872.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;latest count&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Palestinian health officials put the three-day death toll in Gaza at 364; the U.N. said the total included at least 62 civilians.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Again, ~20% civilian casualties.  It should be clear to anyone that civilians are &lt;strong&gt;not &lt;/strong&gt;being targeted by the Isaraelis.  On the other hand:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;In a barrage Monday night, a missile crashed into a &lt;strong&gt;bus stop&lt;/strong&gt; in Ashdod, 23 miles from the Gaza Strip. A woman died and two others were wounded, one seriously _ the first casualties in the city of 190,000 residents.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Another Israeli was killed and one seriously wounded by a rocket strike in the Negev desert community of Nahal Oz, closer to the Gaza border. Earlier, a missile killed a construction worker in the city of Ashkelon. In all, four Israelis were dead since the Gaza offensive began Saturday, bringing to 19 the number of people killed in attacks from Gaza since the beginning of the year.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per the <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/29/israeli-assault-targets-s_n_153872.html" rel="nofollow">latest count</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Palestinian health officials put the three-day death toll in Gaza at 364; the U.N. said the total included at least 62 civilians.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Again, ~20% civilian casualties.  It should be clear to anyone that civilians are <strong>not </strong>being targeted by the Isaraelis.  On the other hand:</p>
<blockquote><p>In a barrage Monday night, a missile crashed into a <strong>bus stop</strong> in Ashdod, 23 miles from the Gaza Strip. A woman died and two others were wounded, one seriously _ the first casualties in the city of 190,000 residents.</p>
<p>Another Israeli was killed and one seriously wounded by a rocket strike in the Negev desert community of Nahal Oz, closer to the Gaza border. Earlier, a missile killed a construction worker in the city of Ashkelon. In all, four Israelis were dead since the Gaza offensive began Saturday, bringing to 19 the number of people killed in attacks from Gaza since the beginning of the year.</p>
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		<title>By: Kilo</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5171</link>
		<dc:creator>Kilo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5171</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Somewhere Jeff Stein is asking “Why can’t we get the US to shoot down the Israeli planes”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhere Jeff Stein is asking “Why can’t we get the US to shoot down the Israeli planes”.</p>
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		<title>By: JayTeaNH</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5169</link>
		<dc:creator>JayTeaNH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 06:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5169</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Israel is supposed to negotiate in good faith, huh?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here’s a bit of reality that might have escaped you idiots:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1) Hamas is the duly elected government in the Gaza Strip.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2) Hamas’ charter states unequivocally:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;”Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;”Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;”There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All from Article 13 of the Hamas Charter.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just listen to their own words. They ARE NOT INTERESTED IN NEGOTIATIONS. At least, not as anything but as a tactic towards their true goal — the eradication of Israel and its replacement with an Islamist state.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;LEARN TO READ, MORONS. Listen to what they say. Not to take them at their word is racism.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;J.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel is supposed to negotiate in good faith, huh?</p>
<p>Here’s a bit of reality that might have escaped you idiots:</p>
<p>1) Hamas is the duly elected government in the Gaza Strip.</p>
<p>2) Hamas’ charter states unequivocally:</p>
<p>”Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.”</p>
<p>”Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?”</p>
<p>”There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”</p>
<p>All from Article 13 of the Hamas Charter.</p>
<p>Just listen to their own words. They ARE NOT INTERESTED IN NEGOTIATIONS. At least, not as anything but as a tactic towards their true goal — the eradication of Israel and its replacement with an Islamist state.</p>
<p>LEARN TO READ, MORONS. Listen to what they say. Not to take them at their word is racism.</p>
<p>J.</p>
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		<title>By: cobernicus</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5162</link>
		<dc:creator>cobernicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5162</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In case you haven’t noticed Israel unilaterally returned the Gaza Strip to Palestinian control, with wonderful results.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case you haven’t noticed Israel unilaterally returned the Gaza Strip to Palestinian control, with wonderful results.</p>
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		<title>By: cobernicus</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5161</link>
		<dc:creator>cobernicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5161</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Every Israeli &lt;strong&gt;adult&lt;/strong&gt; over the age of 18 is technically in the Army or Reserves.  Children, tourists, etc. are not.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, Hamas recruits women and children to serve as suicide bombers, so your “innocents” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Israeli casualties have been low, it is not from lack of effort by Hamas.  It is attributable to efficient civil defense efforts.  As a tiny minority in a sea of Muslim enemies determined to “drive them into the sea,” Israelis put a high value on the lives of their citizens, something wihich Hamas apparently does not.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every Israeli <strong>adult</strong> over the age of 18 is technically in the Army or Reserves.  Children, tourists, etc. are not.</p>
<p>On the other hand, Hamas recruits women and children to serve as suicide bombers, so your “innocents” </p>
<p>If Israeli casualties have been low, it is not from lack of effort by Hamas.  It is attributable to efficient civil defense efforts.  As a tiny minority in a sea of Muslim enemies determined to “drive them into the sea,” Israelis put a high value on the lives of their citizens, something wihich Hamas apparently does not.</p>
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		<title>By: cobernicus</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5160</link>
		<dc:creator>cobernicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5160</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The 180 Hamas police dead comes from &lt;a href=&quot;http://newsblaze.com/story/20081228092650zzzz.nb/topstory.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hamas TV&lt;/a&gt;.  The 240 number came from numerous press reports.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As I said, these were the numbers from the first attacks and are changeing.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 180 Hamas police dead comes from <a href="http://newsblaze.com/story/20081228092650zzzz.nb/topstory.html" rel="nofollow">Hamas TV</a>.  The 240 number came from numerous press reports.</p>
<p>As I said, these were the numbers from the first attacks and are changeing.</p>
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		<title>By: politicat</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5159</link>
		<dc:creator>politicat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5159</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oops!  That was supposed to be a reply to RiderOnTheStorm @67.  Sorry, somatichypermutation — I agree with you.  I was trying to object to RiderOnTheStorm calling people disposable.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops!  That was supposed to be a reply to RiderOnTheStorm @67.  Sorry, somatichypermutation — I agree with you.  I was trying to object to RiderOnTheStorm calling people disposable.</p>
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		<title>By: politicat</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5158</link>
		<dc:creator>politicat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5158</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You’re sick.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You’re sick.</p>
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		<title>By: MarktheSpark</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5157</link>
		<dc:creator>MarktheSpark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5157</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Glad to see many on this thread see the racist, genocidal Israeli gov’t. actions (at least 225 killed in one day, total # of civilians unknown) for what they are.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As usual, we get the apologists for Imperialism &amp; “the white man’s burden” (as Kipling so bluntly put it) to “civilize” those savage brown people who don’t honor brute force. I like the Vietnam vet(purported)’s claim that a gov’t. should first “protect” its people, but how he completely disregards that Hamas’s actions are in response to the complete starving/strangulation of their civilian population economically which began in spring ‘07. I also like the Kenosha Kid’s “people have died” statement w/ no #s or facts given.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In this country you won’t get a fair assessment or even a passing acknowledgment that the Palestinians are human and possess any rights from our corporate MSM, but the rest of the world sees things a bit more even-handedly.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wish I had any confidence that an Obama admin. will change our 100% support of and funding/arming of Israeli massacres, but I’m certainly not that naive.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see many on this thread see the racist, genocidal Israeli gov’t. actions (at least 225 killed in one day, total # of civilians unknown) for what they are.</p>
<p>As usual, we get the apologists for Imperialism &amp; “the white man’s burden” (as Kipling so bluntly put it) to “civilize” those savage brown people who don’t honor brute force. I like the Vietnam vet(purported)’s claim that a gov’t. should first “protect” its people, but how he completely disregards that Hamas’s actions are in response to the complete starving/strangulation of their civilian population economically which began in spring ‘07. I also like the Kenosha Kid’s “people have died” statement w/ no #s or facts given.</p>
<p>In this country you won’t get a fair assessment or even a passing acknowledgment that the Palestinians are human and possess any rights from our corporate MSM, but the rest of the world sees things a bit more even-handedly.</p>
<p>I wish I had any confidence that an Obama admin. will change our 100% support of and funding/arming of Israeli massacres, but I’m certainly not that naive.</p>
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		<title>By: RiderOnTheStorm</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/comment-page-1/#comment-5156</link>
		<dc:creator>RiderOnTheStorm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/as-they-were-picking-up-the-dead-out-of-the-broken-glass-yes-its-number-one-the-radio-said-groovy-times-have-come-to-pass/#comment-5156</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One thing is certainly clear: Hamas are cowards.  If they believe that Israel is the enemy, and that they have no alternative but to fight, then let them engage the enemy’s armed forces directly…instead of deliberately targeting the enemy’s civilians, while using their own as human shields.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There’s no question that there’s plenty of blame to go around here — not just Israel and Hamas, but the US and Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Hezbollah, and on and on and on.  We could go on (we HAVE gone on) at great length trying to figure out who bears most of the responsibility — and it’s a question we’ll never settle, which is why I’m ignoring it and focusing solely on the tactical situation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And that tactical situation is, as I noted above, that Hamas is quite obviously willing to sacrifice not only Israeli civilians, but Palestinian citizens — whether out of appallingly stupidity or cynically calculated manipulation, it’s still cowardice.  I look forward to reading of more of their (Hamas) deaths — every one represents one less coward contaminating my planet, one more utterly disposable life ended — and good riddance to them.  My hope is that as few civilians (on both sides) are lost in the process, but I’m sure Hamas will do everything possible to maximize the body count.  (I trust folks saw the news item earlier in the day where the CNN wire reported that — following the breach of the wall with Egypt — Hamas had opened fire on &lt;em&gt;Palestinians&lt;/em&gt;.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing is certainly clear: Hamas are cowards.  If they believe that Israel is the enemy, and that they have no alternative but to fight, then let them engage the enemy’s armed forces directly…instead of deliberately targeting the enemy’s civilians, while using their own as human shields.</p>
<p>There’s no question that there’s plenty of blame to go around here — not just Israel and Hamas, but the US and Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Hezbollah, and on and on and on.  We could go on (we HAVE gone on) at great length trying to figure out who bears most of the responsibility — and it’s a question we’ll never settle, which is why I’m ignoring it and focusing solely on the tactical situation.</p>
<p>And that tactical situation is, as I noted above, that Hamas is quite obviously willing to sacrifice not only Israeli civilians, but Palestinian citizens — whether out of appallingly stupidity or cynically calculated manipulation, it’s still cowardice.  I look forward to reading of more of their (Hamas) deaths — every one represents one less coward contaminating my planet, one more utterly disposable life ended — and good riddance to them.  My hope is that as few civilians (on both sides) are lost in the process, but I’m sure Hamas will do everything possible to maximize the body count.  (I trust folks saw the news item earlier in the day where the CNN wire reported that — following the breach of the wall with Egypt — Hamas had opened fire on <em>Palestinians</em>.)</p>
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