This Washington Post story does an excellent job of placing yesterday’s U.S. missile strikes in Pakistan within the context of what Barack Obama has been promising for 18 months. Military force against al-Qaeda senior leadership in the Pakistani tribal areas will occur unilaterally if-and-only-if the Pakistani government and military demonstrates intransigence. In October I wrote a piece about both the potential benefits and the enormous risks of such an approach.
But why not get into some others? Let’s go beyond just emphasizing the widely-agreed-upon nightmarish endgame of a destabilized nuclear state. Instead let’s look at what in this policy could get us there — or get us to other, similarly awful outcomes.
First, Wendy Chamberlin, a former U.S. ambassador to Pakistan and a South Asia adviser to Obama, defended the policy to me in October like this:
“These are the guys who attacked us in Manhattan, at the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania,” she said. “If that’s the target he’s going after, it’s his obligation. Nothing Obama has ever said indicates he’d be doing it without the Pakistanis knowing.”
I italicized the beginning of the conditional because it’s what, potentially, slips between cup and lip. How do you know who you’re targeting in the tribal areas? Precision missiles are only as precise as the targeting information that guides them. Now, something is up with targeting information in the tribal areas. I’m not guaranteeing this, nor am I ready to report anything, but it is a safe assumption that missile strikes (and the occasional raid) would not have increased in 2008 without an increase in human-intelligence reporting from the Pakistani side of the Afgh-Pak border. I am not vouching for the value of that information. And like I said, I am not ready to report anything on this. But remember that last year, George W. Bush loosened the restrictions on Special Operations Forces in Pakistan. Something to watch for as AfghaniPakistan policy takes shape is whether Obama reins them back in — or whether he’s being told that the resulting increase in information if that in fact exists is too valuable to give up.
Notice that that’s a slippery slope. These are supposed to be attacks against senior al-Qaeda leadership. Who counts as senior? I’m not making an argument, I’m just pointing out a consideration to watch for.
Second, you have new people as Pakistani president, Army chief and intelligence chief. They are going to spend a lot of time figuring out where one’s power ends and another’s begins. They’re also under seige by a really vicious murderer named Beitullah Massoud, the leader of the Pakistani Taliban. Suffice it to say that they’re not lacking for pressure. If it’s a choice between riots in the streets in Pakistan and a dead bin Laden or Zawahiri, I’d say that’s a worthwhile trade-off, but — again — your targeting information is rarely that good. Some of these decisions, if not all of them, are going to be made on a gamble, and Pakistan is caught in the shuffle. Husain Haqqani, the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, is a real, true friend to the U.S., so it’s worth listening when he says:
"Pakistan hopes that Obama will be more patient while dealing with Pakistan," Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s ambassador to Washington, said in an interview Wednesday with Pakistan’s Geo television network. "We will review all options if Obama does not adopt a positive policy towards us." He urged Obama to "hear us out."
Review all options is not really what you want to hear from a key ally (or, if you prefer, frenemy). Perhaps it’s inevitable: our interests, it really should be said, are not as uniform against al-Qaeda as the Bush/Musharraf partnership stated in public. Pakistan is at greater danger of destabilization than the U.S. is in danger of another catastrophic terror attack emanating from the Pakistani tribal areas. Recognizing that has to be a key aspect of strategy.
And that leads to the broader point. The Obama administration hopes strikes like these send the message to Islamabad that more of this is on the way if the Pakistanis don’t get their shit together and hunt down al-Qaeda itself. If you were President Zardari, how would you react to that message? Would you believe that the U.S. really understood, or cared, about the pressures you face; and was actually willing to assist you in dealing with them? Or would you think you were getting an insulting series of ultimatums, purchased in people’s lives?



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At the risk of sounding wackier than usual, do you dismiss the idea that some of the information used for targeting might be coming from Pakistani sources and we’re killing people that they want dead?
I’d want to see some evidence for that.
yes, I cackled wistfully, so would i.
No matter what gets accomplished and who bites the dust, I have to question the larger-scale wisdom of unilaterally engaging in military strikes within the sovereign borders of an ally, even one as difficult to categorize as Pakistan.
If you do this to an “enemy”, you get a counterattack, or at least some asymmetrical actions against your interests. Doing it to a “friend”, one from whom you will want to ask, for some specific actions and concessions, seems deeply counterproductive unless the capacity of the people you are killing to harm you is exponentially higher than it seems to be in this case.
These kinds of actions can have all sorts of blowback, from increased nationalism to less cooperation to high level political realignment. You’re messing with national and tribal pride, and those flames can be fanned with religious fundamentalism, and if you keep pushing people into a corner, without any path to resist you, you may very well find yourself deeply regretting short-sighted small military “victories” in the future…
mikey
There’s no small amount of sense in what you’re saying, but am I wrong in thinking that our bombing of al Qaeda and/or Taliban members IS a counterattack in resonse to 9/11?
So he gave them 24hrs ? Jesus, even the mafia wouldn’t consider that debt overdue.
Surely this demonstrates he’s deferred to the military’s existing policy than implementing his own.
I wasn’t aware this was in question.
Pakistan’s been killing more militants there than the US. The situation they’re in with domestic militants and the fact their 1st condemnation of a strike has the same tone as their 87th would tell you they protest these strikes because they need to.
The incidents with US troops on Pak soil, the reaction to that from both Pak and US diplomats and the pullback provide a comparison point for how these strikes go over at an official level.
Seriously, wasn’t I reading only a couple of weeks ago about Pak troops sitting in as observers on drone missions ? That’s your evidence.
WTF? Twenny-four hours isn’t enough? Obama promised to vigorishly prosecute attacks on al Qaeda.
Certainly, but it’s a counterattack now in its SIXTH year.
That in and of itself should start to indicate, if not futility, at least diminishing returns…
mikey
No question that the DoD fucked it up till it was inside out.
It might , on the other hand, indicates that we haven’t yet gotten the returns we might expect from competent generalship.
That is, I suppose, a valid possibility.
My reading of history supports the more valid possibility that Afghanistan is where empires go to die. And ultimately, an ignominious withdrawal is the likeliest outcome.
Seems to me that a residual over-the-horizon SpecOps presence and a functional international law enforcement community could prevent and disrupt attacks emanating from ANYWHERE while costing a great deal less in blood, treasure and prestige than an occupation-level troop presence that only makes the locals hate round-eyes even more.
Look, there’s a righteous parallel to the missile-defense argument. Ultimately, at some point, we ARE going to get hit again. NOTHING we do can prevent every attack. So the real question becomes, what is the right BALANCE. Even if we occupied every country in the world, we’d still get hit again.
We need to do two things, and NEITHER of them have anything to do with putting a troop presence on the ground in Afghanistan. First, we need to continue to develop a robust, law-enforcement, intelligence and SpecOps based counter-terrorism program that gets entirely out of the political business and works real threats and kills or prosecutes real terrs. Second, we need to start operating in the world in a cooperative, peaceful manner that pisses off as few people as possible while still achieving our strategic goals, and we need to start acting as a real partner to the developing world. China, Russia and India have all figured it out, but they tend to leave human rights and environmental standards at the door. We can do it better. Thing is, we gotta START first…
mikey
I’m not saying it’s bad, I’m just saying lets not pretend it’s the new changey version of the exact same program.
Obama’s unique in a lot of ways. Being the one guy in the US who knows WTF to do about Pakistan is not one of them. That American hasn’t been born yet.
Remember your line about the mafia? If you closely read my @8 again….
Thank you for the lengthy reply.
I think that your idea for the Spec Ops/internat’l effort would a good way to go, and it would have been a good way to start in Afghanistan.
But that was then… We need to do a few things in the area to try to unfuck it and then limit our presence to the form of aid.
The important thing is that terrorism is not a new problem, and it didn’t start with nine eleven.
Setting aside the mad thrashing about of the bush/cheney administration, we KNOW how to deal with these threats. They are neither new nor particularly scary. They are groups of people gathering together to commit crimes. If they were going to rob a bank or steal a painting, we’d know EXACTLY what to do. So we need to abstract the idea of their goal and understand what is required to disrupt their plans. No different than if their plans were purely monetary profit.
We already have most of the pieces in place. Let’s push it all the way into operation and just shut these cells down…
mikey
Not new, but the amount of damage that terrorists can cause has increased and threatens to increase further.
When terrorists receive funding, training, armament, ans santuary from nations it’s quite scary and we don’t really know how to deal with it.
Sure we do. We infiltrate, monitor, and when necessary, we insert and kill them.
It’s not new. Please don’t conflate new weapons with new solutions. The methods are the same, we know what works, and we know what doesn’t.
It’s not time to panic. It’s time to let our systems and operators do what they do. And it’s not time to become Stalin’s Soviet Union. We can do this and stay true to our values.
Anything less is cowardice, and is seen as such in the shadows…
mikey
If we knew how, would OBL and al Zawahiri still be around?
If state sponsership isn’t a huge problem, does that mean that we won’t be having a problem we go into Pakistan looking for them?
State sponsored terror is almost a non issue at this point.
It’s the state FUNDING you need to be concerned about, and that’s something that isn’t easy to get a handle on. It goes into islamic charities, thruouout the gulf, and many of them are legit.
Honestly? Bin laden is what we might call “retired”. He’s made the big hit, and yeah, things went the way he said they would. Western governments responed with invasions and occupations, and their economies collapsed. Whatever you want him to be, bin Laden is an elder statesman who took on america and won. That’s not something you can argue with. You need to kill him, and every day you don’t he wins.
America’s problem is that America has a World War Two view of warfare. They found a way to ignore Korea, and they lost Vietnam. Today’s battles aren’t wars, and to start bandying about terms like “win” and “loss” is to play the losers game…
mikey
I can’t agree with a damn thing in your last post.
The iranian regime hasn’t stopped sponsering terrorism and is looking for a means to insure that it won’t be deterred from continuing to do so.
And WTF does Western governmental action have to do with economic collapse?
What terrorism is Iran sponsoring?
And don’t say Hizzbollah, they haven’t attacked anyone but Israel in a decade, and they ARE under occupation. So you may hate their actions, but they are actions YOU and I would take in the same circumstance, so there’s got to be some kind of pass issued.
I don’t know what “western Governmental action” has to do with economic collapse, but bin Laden said it would happen, and anybody prone to follow his narrative is going to give him credit for that happening, and if you don’t understand where bin Laden gets his credibility, you need to go back to International Relations 101.
I’d like to see some real evidence that Iran is sponsoring international terror outside of Iraq, which, I’d point out, is AT LEAST as much in their venue as it is in ours.
I’m not giving them a free pass, I’m just saying, when all the rhetoric stops, where’s the beef?
mikey
Hezbollah is under occupation? On whose planet?
Ok.
I don’t want to play this stupid game.
If you think Hizbollah has NO right to resist Israeli occupation,then there’s really no basis for conversation here.
You just cling to your “we’re always right” belief set, and see how well it solves real world problems in the twenty first century…
mikey
No game. You really think that Israel is occupying Lebanon?
Israel is occupying Palestine. The Palestinians have as much right to seek international support as the Israelis do. The Palestinians have as much right to resist international pressure and try to carve out a homeland as the Israelis did in ‘48. The Israelis have set themselves up as the holders of the mandate, much as the brits did in the late forties. They’re gonna have to live with the consequences of taking that role.
What part of this is too complex for you?
mikey
Dont get snippy, mikey.
Are you sure you’re not confusing Hezbollah and Hamas?
If not, I seem to think that you’re saying that it’s perfectly reasonable for anyone in the world to do anything to Israel. I hope that’s not what you’re saying.
On the Israeli question, I wouldn’t have supported the founding of Israel in the Middle east in 1948. And absolutely, the Palestinians have at least as much right to the land.
But the argument is wandering all over the place, so, place answer if you’re not confusing Hamas and Hezbollah.
Know what?
I look at it like this:
American bombs and rockets rain down on Gaza.
Iranian rockets rain down on Israel.
Right, wrong or equivalent, seems to me it’s pretty hard to identify the bad guy…
mikey
Will you answer what I’ve twice asked in my last post or shall I ascribe your reticence to chagrin?
What makes you think I’m confused?
It really doesn’t matter. As long as Israel continues the policies she has adopted, resistance is a given. And you only decide Hizbollah (or Hamas) is the bad guy because you essentially support Israel in spite of the crimes committed in her names.
Here’s the thing, my friend. I learned about warfare in a shitty little hole on the Cambodian border on a battalion perimeter in June of 1970, under 82mm Illum rounds, with trip flares cooking off in the wire and people I cared about dying hard and slow while we tried to hold.
The easy, even glib answer is, it’s NEVER the right answer.
But the more interesting challenge is, after you KNOW what it is, what “threat” is so great you would send your children?
I haven’t slept peacefully for nearly forty years. But I am comfortable with my conclusion that there just HAS to be a better way…
mikey
Well I hope you sleep well tonight. G’night.
Will you answer what I’ve twice asked in my last post or shall I ascribe your reticence to chagrin?
Dood. Smug much?
Step back now, youngster. Who the HELL do you think you are?
You have a point? Make it.
But you want to have a little respect for your elders, young man, and your whole “chagrin” shtick is a little sad.
Mikey, I respect the truth. And I received my draft notice in 1969. So, Pops, pull your head out and put it on your pillow.
Goodnight for the second time.
OT — Yesterday I was able to listen to 3 videos about Gaza. Does anybody know or recall which blogger site I might have found this material on? I don’t think it was FDL or Emptywheel, but one of the other tabs.
Why would U.S. targeted assassinations in Pakistan be more successful than Israel’s targeted assassinations in Palestine?
Is Barack Obama being given intelligence information by those Bushbots left behind?
As propaganda? Probably in most of the Western world. If the US blows up OBL, it would probably be pretty popular in NYC.
They’ve been writing about this topic over at South Asia Analysis Group.
Yes they have been and from a distinctly Indocentric POV.
I don’t like bombing people. You are too likely to kill them, and many will turn out to be innocent bystanders, ’shrooms as they used to be called on the street. Other than that, my response to bombing western Pakistan and all of Afghanistan and probably Baluchistan is a line out of Blazing Saddles. “Don’t do that. You will only make them angry.”
This is not to make fun of the very real pain and grief that is caused by bombing. The suffering the Afghan people have endured is unbelievable. We can spread this suffering to their relatives in Pakistan. But there is no evidence that an air war against a highly decentralized, rural, tribal society in rough terrain with almost no vulnerable infrastructure is effective. It will certainly make the people angry.
If the campaign is not directed against the tribal people, but against the foreign fighters in the area?
Helene Cooper of the NYT had the best comment on the Afghanistan side of Richard Holbrooke’s new problems: she led her piece with this:
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains
And the women come out to cut up what remains
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.
— Rudyard Kipling, “The Young British Soldier,” 1892
Those backwards tribesmen have been bringing down empires for some while , & there’s nothing that says this will change — education is really the only answer; military might won’t work.
The Constant Weader at http://www.realitychex.com
I realized that I was being too terse in my previous comment. As far as I know, the tribal areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan are controlled by the tribes. If someone foreign is there, that person is there with permission, as a guest. Now it’s possible that he is the guest of one group and disliked by another group. I am not up on Pathan tribal politics.
And I am not an expert on Pathan psychology. But my guess is, they would not like foreign bombs dropping on their land.
I spent six weeks in Afghanistan when I was much younger and my father was doing some work for the USIA. I have continued to be interested in that part of the world. I think the people there are impressive and formidable. I personally would never ever mess with them, though I would very much like to have them as friends.
I agree with Eleanor.
I think that these bombings have a very strong downside beside the obvious fact that it is killing civilians who are already suffering enough. They are raising anti-American feelings in a region that is already not in love with Obama the way the rest of the world seems to be. They weaken the already weak civilian govt that has been trying to work with the West (esp. the US) to go after the Taliban using its own military. It strengthens the forces in the govt (like those in the ISI) that are sympathetic to the Taliban and other terrorist organizations and are against strengthening co-operation with the West.
And the last missile strike killed about 17-22 civilians and as of now we have no proof that any members of the Taliban or Al Qaeda were killed.
As Spencer says, the stability of Pakistan is a grave threat and if the situation there spins out of control we all are in big big trouble.
President Obama said that, if he knew where Osama bin Laden was, he would kill him. Do you think that killing bin Laden would make things worse?
It seems like Obama’s John Wayne approach to Pakistan constitutes his gift to the neo-con and pseudo neo-cons such as yourself who consider invasion of a sovereign country solely in terms of some arbitrary cost-benefit analysis of the value of a dead Bin-laden versus riots in the streets. Imagine the terror of the poor, likely illiterate villagers when the hellfires come raining down. If the missiles kill someone fighting against the U.S. invasion of their sovereign nation or someone opposed to Islamabad’s hegemony of resource rich tribal areas, it is a good thing, because they are militants. If the missile kills a non-militant, it is their own fault for providing aid to such militants. Nice justice.
bin Laden is a poor, illiterate person fighting against the invasion of his nation? I was talking about he and Zawahiri.
I think this solitary focus on killing bin Laden is misplaced. The cost of that is too large and there is little proof that killing him will end or even seriously hamper terrorist activity. They will just pretend that their great leader has been slain in a fight that must continue forever and a day.
I think the emphasis should be on reducing the ability of these terrorists to gather weapons, to take control of villages and to empower the people so that they are able to have some form regular life that is not overwrought with violence. This battle has to be political as well as military. There needs to be a strong emphasis on development and pro-american political rhetoric and action. Actually not pro-american, but pro-peace. People in that region take up fighting because that is all they know. They are told that the US is their enemy and they must fight them or they have little purpose in life. There should alternative life paths made available. Terrorism permeates not only as a result of certain terrorist leaders, but also because of circumstances that exist on the ground. A counter-insurgency operation is usually a 80-90 percent political battle and a 10-20 percent military battle.
Absolutely agree that the emphasis is to be reducing the ability to cause harm from terrorists.
We have, in previous decades, sunk huge effort and treasure into development and have often not had a successful result. That shouldn’t stop us from continuing to try. Development aid is the face of humanity.
But I can’t help wondering if we’re better off with bin Laden wandering in the mountains or under the earth.