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	<title>Comments on: Identified: An OLC Interrogation Memo From 2007</title>
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	<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/</link>
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		<title>By: lexalexander</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9128</link>
		<dc:creator>lexalexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9128</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Taking hostages in this manner violates the Geneva Conventions. And this isn’t the only case in which we did it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking hostages in this manner violates the Geneva Conventions. And this isn’t the only case in which we did it.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9125</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9125</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just as Bradbury’s Memos actually compile more information about WHAT actually occurred than the “justification memoranda” this 2007 Memo is likely to go into vast detail about “errors” and “abuses” that occurred. It will cite these and say “that was overreaching or failed to provide accurate intel”. This could be the Holy Grail since it will review what was achieved. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s two sons (7 and 9 years old) were captured in Pakistan in September 2002, less than a month after the “caterpillar or other insect” memo was issued.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Acciording to a statement by the father of internee Majid “The Pakistani guards told my son that the boys were kept in a separate area upstairs, and were denied food and water by &lt;strong&gt;other&lt;/strong&gt; guards. They were also mentally tortured by having ants or other creatures put on their legs to scare them and get them to say where their father was hiding.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Note the use of insects! Another suspect was tortured in restraint and pain positions for eight hours or more, then placed in a box that was “too small to sit or stand in and infested with mosquitos”. It’s unlikely that the room where interrogators were working would be filled with mosquitos. But the box was. Clearly, this is again another case of the application of insects to torment the internees.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Another report says that the boys were brought &lt;strong&gt;to the United States&lt;/strong&gt; in March 2003 for further interrogation after their father was captured. The CIA reported that child psychologists were involved in these interrogations, which were intended to get their father to “talk”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Exactly how it can be justified that such interrogations were in the “best interests” of the children is beyond me. How can child psychologists justify such activity? They should have been advocates for the release of the children to relatives. Instead they were participating in State-Sponsored kidnapping….that was occurring within the borders of the United States.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One can be assured that there were videotapes of these interrogations….perhaps shown to KSM…who knew his kids were held (although he thought they had only been held 3 months) and tortured.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as Bradbury’s Memos actually compile more information about WHAT actually occurred than the “justification memoranda” this 2007 Memo is likely to go into vast detail about “errors” and “abuses” that occurred. It will cite these and say “that was overreaching or failed to provide accurate intel”. This could be the Holy Grail since it will review what was achieved. </p>
<p>BTW Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s two sons (7 and 9 years old) were captured in Pakistan in September 2002, less than a month after the “caterpillar or other insect” memo was issued.</p>
<p>Acciording to a statement by the father of internee Majid “The Pakistani guards told my son that the boys were kept in a separate area upstairs, and were denied food and water by <strong>other</strong> guards. They were also mentally tortured by having ants or other creatures put on their legs to scare them and get them to say where their father was hiding.”</p>
<p>Note the use of insects! Another suspect was tortured in restraint and pain positions for eight hours or more, then placed in a box that was “too small to sit or stand in and infested with mosquitos”. It’s unlikely that the room where interrogators were working would be filled with mosquitos. But the box was. Clearly, this is again another case of the application of insects to torment the internees.</p>
<p>Another report says that the boys were brought <strong>to the United States</strong> in March 2003 for further interrogation after their father was captured. The CIA reported that child psychologists were involved in these interrogations, which were intended to get their father to “talk”.</p>
<p>Exactly how it can be justified that such interrogations were in the “best interests” of the children is beyond me. How can child psychologists justify such activity? They should have been advocates for the release of the children to relatives. Instead they were participating in State-Sponsored kidnapping….that was occurring within the borders of the United States.</p>
<p>One can be assured that there were videotapes of these interrogations….perhaps shown to KSM…who knew his kids were held (although he thought they had only been held 3 months) and tortured.</p>
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		<title>By: billindc</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9124</link>
		<dc:creator>billindc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9124</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The OPR report on the is going to be the next shoe to drop. Sen. Whitehouse said on Maddow: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;…the report’s release “can’t be more than a few weeks away,” and that he has “every reason to believe it will be a devastating opinion.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/whitehouse_opr_torture_report_likely_to_be_devasta.php?ref=fp1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpoi.....hp?ref=fp1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The OPR report on the is going to be the next shoe to drop. Sen. Whitehouse said on Maddow: </p>
<blockquote><p>…the report’s release “can’t be more than a few weeks away,” and that he has “every reason to believe it will be a devastating opinion.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/whitehouse_opr_torture_report_likely_to_be_devasta.php?ref=fp1" rel="nofollow">http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpoi&#8230;..hp?ref=fp1</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9123</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9123</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;17 et prev - the CIA put together some docs that are referenced in the Bradbury memo.  While those docs are not released, the “good parts” Bradbury lifts from them into his memos are and that is a pretty sorry assortment.  Marcy touches on it some in a post she had about the quantity of intel reports they got out of the torture -266 waterboardings plus head slamming and nudity and sleep deprivation = 3000 intel reports and half of all we know about al-Qaeda.  Which, apparently, is why we can’t seem to find Bin Laden - our intel reports placed in him Zubaydah’s waking dreams.  Apparently the CIA is still looking for the right “technique” to get them there too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In any event, Bradbury lists a whole lot of things referencing those docs and most of them sound ridiculous or have been pretty clearly sourced elsewhere.  It sounds to me that Bradbury tries at one point to make KSM the source for routing the Singapore follow up bombings, but that has been pretty well and thoroughly sourced elsewhere.  And apparently in the end KSM tied himself to pretty much everything we could have ever listed - a completely unsuspicious circumstance.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Remember Cheney and Libby’s spiels with Judy Miller.  After they cherrypicked info for surreptitious release to her without attribution (in violation, imo, of the nat sec act’s prohibition on executive planted, unattributed domestic propaganda) Libby also gave her a spiel about that being a taste, if she could only see the real stuff it would be so much worse (of course, they had cherrypicked the “best of the worst” and what was actually left was stuff contradicting what they planted with her).  So that’s an old time game he plays.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He also knows that what CIA can do is lie and produce fake docs - just like they can destroy original videos.  So the hint is there, not so much because he cares about the CIA operative he made into torturers, but bc he has CIA in a position where, to cover for their own, they have to protect him too and he’s getting a kick out of that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>17 et prev &#8211; the CIA put together some docs that are referenced in the Bradbury memo.  While those docs are not released, the “good parts” Bradbury lifts from them into his memos are and that is a pretty sorry assortment.  Marcy touches on it some in a post she had about the quantity of intel reports they got out of the torture -266 waterboardings plus head slamming and nudity and sleep deprivation = 3000 intel reports and half of all we know about al-Qaeda.  Which, apparently, is why we can’t seem to find Bin Laden &#8211; our intel reports placed in him Zubaydah’s waking dreams.  Apparently the CIA is still looking for the right “technique” to get them there too.</p>
<p>In any event, Bradbury lists a whole lot of things referencing those docs and most of them sound ridiculous or have been pretty clearly sourced elsewhere.  It sounds to me that Bradbury tries at one point to make KSM the source for routing the Singapore follow up bombings, but that has been pretty well and thoroughly sourced elsewhere.  And apparently in the end KSM tied himself to pretty much everything we could have ever listed &#8211; a completely unsuspicious circumstance.  </p>
<p>Remember Cheney and Libby’s spiels with Judy Miller.  After they cherrypicked info for surreptitious release to her without attribution (in violation, imo, of the nat sec act’s prohibition on executive planted, unattributed domestic propaganda) Libby also gave her a spiel about that being a taste, if she could only see the real stuff it would be so much worse (of course, they had cherrypicked the “best of the worst” and what was actually left was stuff contradicting what they planted with her).  So that’s an old time game he plays.  </p>
<p>He also knows that what CIA can do is lie and produce fake docs &#8211; just like they can destroy original videos.  So the hint is there, not so much because he cares about the CIA operative he made into torturers, but bc he has CIA in a position where, to cover for their own, they have to protect him too and he’s getting a kick out of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9122</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9122</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;16 - they also knew that each memo, while going further and further, still carved out exceptions that put them outside of the memos scope.  Nowhere do any of the memos talk about adding disappearing someone and holding them in isolation to the listings - then there are the el-Masris, “mistakes” who it is hard to fit under the “high ranking al-Qaeda operative” carve outs, and the way the toruture was applied and the lack of cut off after 30 days (or 5 years for that matter) and the other uses of hypothermia, and the death of Jamadi from non-listed techniques (he wasn’t just slapped) and the use of proxy torturers and the threats to family and the actual kidnap of family and …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yeah - they kept going back and they got more and more each time, but they never really got what they needed, even so, and they know it.  But it’s ok - Obama is happy to give them what no one else would.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>16 &#8211; they also knew that each memo, while going further and further, still carved out exceptions that put them outside of the memos scope.  Nowhere do any of the memos talk about adding disappearing someone and holding them in isolation to the listings &#8211; then there are the el-Masris, “mistakes” who it is hard to fit under the “high ranking al-Qaeda operative” carve outs, and the way the toruture was applied and the lack of cut off after 30 days (or 5 years for that matter) and the other uses of hypothermia, and the death of Jamadi from non-listed techniques (he wasn’t just slapped) and the use of proxy torturers and the threats to family and the actual kidnap of family and …</p>
<p>Yeah &#8211; they kept going back and they got more and more each time, but they never really got what they needed, even so, and they know it.  But it’s ok &#8211; Obama is happy to give them what no one else would.</p>
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		<title>By: Beerfart Liberal</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9121</link>
		<dc:creator>Beerfart Liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9121</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;agree on all counts. they keep spouting the lines that ‘it worked” it “saved lives” etc.  there’s got to be something on paper.   probably wouldn’t withstand analysis by a few bloggers in pajamas in their basements or whatever Palin’s terminolgy was.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>agree on all counts. they keep spouting the lines that ‘it worked” it “saved lives” etc.  there’s got to be something on paper.   probably wouldn’t withstand analysis by a few bloggers in pajamas in their basements or whatever Palin’s terminolgy was.</p>
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		<title>By: Beerfart Liberal</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9120</link>
		<dc:creator>Beerfart Liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9120</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;that occurred to me too.  i was wondering if there aren’t some self-serving pices of garbage out there.  also, others have pointed out that Cheny probably has copies of alot of the memos that were floating around.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that occurred to me too.  i was wondering if there aren’t some self-serving pices of garbage out there.  also, others have pointed out that Cheny probably has copies of alot of the memos that were floating around.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9119</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You know, in response to Ratner’s question about who they were wanting to keep torturing in 2007, something came to mind and it is conveniently mentioned in another story - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/19/AR2009041900510.html?hpid=sec-world&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;one about Roxanna Saberi &lt;/a&gt;and whatshisname trying to propagandize on the fair trial she will be getting that does also tuck in this reference:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Iranian leaders have repeatedly asked for the release of three Iranian diplomats, who are accused of spying but have been held without trial by U.S. forces in Iraq since 2007. The Iranian foreign ministry recently called for the “speedy and unconditional freedom of its consulate officials.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, in response to Ratner’s question about who they were wanting to keep torturing in 2007, something came to mind and it is conveniently mentioned in another story &#8211; <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/19/AR2009041900510.html?hpid=sec-world" rel="nofollow">one about Roxanna Saberi </a>and whatshisname trying to propagandize on the fair trial she will be getting that does also tuck in this reference:</p>
<blockquote><p>Iranian leaders have repeatedly asked for the release of three Iranian diplomats, who are accused of spying but have been held without trial by U.S. forces in Iraq since 2007. The Iranian foreign ministry recently called for the “speedy and unconditional freedom of its consulate officials.”</p>
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		<title>By: Spencer Ackerman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9117</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer Ackerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9117</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Agree entirely.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Spencer Ackerman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9116</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer Ackerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/04/21/identified-an-olc-interrogation-memo-from-2007/#comment-9116</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There simply &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; to be memos that say “all this enhanced interrogation — it works!” It’s harder to believe that there wouldn’t be such memos. What we’ll need to see is how those memos established the basic proposition that the torture &lt;em&gt;worked&lt;/em&gt;; or that alternative techniques wouldn’t have, etc.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There simply <em>have</em> to be memos that say “all this enhanced interrogation — it works!” It’s harder to believe that there wouldn’t be such memos. What we’ll need to see is how those memos established the basic proposition that the torture <em>worked</em>; or that alternative techniques wouldn’t have, etc.</p>
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