A lot of material from the declassified Senate Armed Services Committee report couldn’t fit into my piece last night, so we take to the blogs. Take a look at page 41, which gives an account of some of the pressures that Guantanamo Bay interrogators were under in the summer of 2002. This is from Maj. Paul Burney, an Army psychologist assigned to a Behavioral Science Consultation Team there that was "expected to become familiar with resistance training techniques used in SERE school."
[T]his is my opinion, even though they [the detainees] were giving information and some of it was useful, while we were there a large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq and we were not being successful in establishing a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq. The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish this link… there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results.
(Big shout to commenter MPower1952, who spotted this in last night’s comment thread.) Consider that the context. The report says that Becker was told by the then-commander of interrogations at Guantanamo that "the office of Deputy Secretary of Defense [Paul] Wolfowitz had called to express concerns about the insufficient intelligence production at GTMO" and that after one such call, "the Deputy Secretary himself said that GTMO should use more aggressive interrogation techniques." The ex-commander, Maj. Gen. Michael Dunlavey doesn’t remember such conversations. But Wolfowitz was known for telling al-Qaeda experts like Richard Clarke in the spring of 2001 that Osama bin Laden was a red herring, since global terrorism emanated from Iraq. It stands to reason that he would want to get more "aggressive" — which, in this context, means abusive — when detainees don’t confirm his longstanding articles of faith. Over the course of the next several months, the report documents extensively, SERE techniques became ingrained — at Guantanamo, and by the CIA.
It’s worth remembering that this is part of a pattern. Clarke said in his memoir that the day of the 9/11 attacks, President Bush growled that the administration needed to find a link between al-Qaeda and Iraq. Within months, the constellation of Pentagon analytical efforts known as the Office of Special Plans got to work re-synthesizing analysis in order to demonstrate the basis for a connection. (The Pentagon’s inspector general judged those efforts to be "not fully supported by underlying intelligence.") The CIA sent an al-Qaeda detainee named Ibn Shaikh al-Libi to Egypt to be tortured before the invasion of Iraq and Libi told his tormenters that, indeed, there were al-Qaeda links to Saddam Hussein. After the invasion, the CIA recanted those claims as unreliable. And it’s worth asking, as Oxdown diarist JimWhite does, if the 183 waterboarding sessions enduring by 9/11 architect Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in March 2003 had to do with manufacturing a Saddam/al-Qaeda confession.
Jon Landay of McClatchy focuses on Burney’s statements to the committee for his write-up, and here’s some context he provides, courtesy of an anonymous intelligence official:
"There were two reasons why these interrogations were so persistent, and why extreme methods were used," the former senior intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because of the issue’s sensitivity.
"The main one is that everyone was worried about some kind of follow-up attack (after 9/11). But for most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there."
Seems like something that a Congressional investigation into torture would be interested in.
Crossposted to The Streak.
Login Here




60 Comments
Spotlight


Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About ATTACKERMAN
Advanced search
RSS/XML Feed
This is why they knowingly choose the SERE techniques which were originally created to illicit false confessions.
http://dastinct.blogspot.com/2008/07/gitmo-2.html
Earlier this morning I did an insta-diary at Oxdown about an Iranian journalist on MSNBC recounting how she was held captive and subjected to harsh treatment with the stated goal of getting her to agree to her captors’ allegations that she was a spy [Context].
Truly sad it is to contemplate that our own government was directing demands for waterboarding to elicit the confessions they wanted to hear. They became that which they called evil.
The more revealed about Chee-knee and the hapless, willfully ignorant George and the rest of Team BushCo, the more I am repulsed.
Were the oilmen using the neocons to do their dirty work? Did Wolfie believe that there was an Iraqi/Al Qaeda link? It really doesn’t matter since in the end they were all wrong and dirty. Unable to concede any miscalculation they forged ahead no matter the reality. Bush is a sadist. Cheney is a sadist and a megalomaniac. Wolfowitz is a neocon comb licker. And Rumsfeld was manipulating every last one of them.
Burney also shared with the Senate investigators damning information from SERE trainers when the interrogators made their field trip to Fort Bragg in September, 2002. The trainers insisted that SERE techniques should not go back to GITMO because torture produces false information.
That completes the loop. Cheney and Rumsfeld were pushing torture with the foreknowledge that any Iraq-al-Qaeda link they found would be false.
Details in this Oxdown.
clearly our “government” was being run by amateurs for the past 8 years. they can’t even do this effectively.
This is like watching a dam burst in slow motion. Ever since the release of the four memos, gallons and gallons of (one hopes, eventually) cleansing water pours forth.
But apart from the torture descriptions themselves, the apologists’ pontificating is perhaps even more horrifying. Nooners, for instance:
“Some things in life need to be mysterious. Sometimes you need to just keep walking. … It’s hard for me to look at a great nation issuing these documents and sending them out to the world and thinking, oh, much good will come of that.”
Yes, let’s keep torture mysterious. And while we’re at it, let’s include rape, genocide and slavery. If we stick our fingers in our ears and sing la, la, la, la all of these icky things will just go away.
“Osama bin Laden a Red Herring”…hmm maybe Wolfowitz knows more than he gets credit for. As more and more of this dreck comes out the whole myth of 9/11 becomes more suspect.
I remember reading that Bushco had a 9/19/2001 meeting with top GOP strategists, many who were active in Florida recount, in the Whitehouse in an effort to tie Iraq to 9/11. God save us from ideologs in power and shopping legal opinions and intel to meet their agenda.
Beyond the cruelty of it all, what strikes me most is the utter stupidity of the men (and woman)who took over the defence establishment in early 2001. I recall someone describing it as a virtual (now we know actual) coup d’etat. The B-team of Rumsfeld Wolfowitz and company were and remain second-raters. Good at one thing: political manoeuvring and no doubt keeping on the good side of whoever it was behind the scenes calling the shots. But the utter ordinariness — what we saw with Eichmann — is what stands out the most. Facts didn’t matter.
This may be the most important truth to come out of the release of the memos. They used 911 to rape and pillage the planet. Did they see it coming or did they create it. I have my theories.
The Neocons are Jewish they above anyone Should Know about Torture from the Nazi Concentration Camps to the Spanish Inquisition do not do onto others what you would not have them do onto you.
They have disgraced their families histories. In the debate over does Might makes Right vs to know the Good is to do the Good, Might just one a real world battle.
For a bunch of would be Strauss followers the *cough* Elite, the Philosopher Kings this is disappointing.
Their record on getting information with torture is like their record on the war, the economy etc 8 years of being wrong.
8 years of nobody at the top holding them accountable.
Even more despicable is that Noonan wanted to peer into the cupboard to see how Bill Clinton was getting blown.
The nation is being destroyed by the Caligula Class.
-G
8 years of killing the truth at every turn.
Since what year of Caesar’s reign has it been the OVP or DoD, NSC or State officials’ jobs to set policy for or to demand specific, “tougher” forms of interrogation? That’s like a prosecutor telling the police to beat the story out of a witness. The prosecutor and the police go to jail without collecting $200.
Wolfowitz knew we were going to war with Iraq regardless of whether WMD’s were found, regardless of whether bin Laden was captured, and he needed cover so the president “wouldn’t be embarrassed”.
Strange what our past president finds embarrassing and what’s not.
Has he ever been embarrassed?
Our government is broken.
Believing what a government official says is a crapshoot.
Democracy cannot work under this condition, any more than a capitalist system can work when you can’t trust bank balance sheets.
Time to clean house. Time sweep clean the halls of power.
Who was it called the NeoCon Douglas Feith the Stupidest Man on the Planet?
As Pat Tillman said to the guy next to him as he was being assassinated’ God’s not going to save your sorry ass”or something close to that.
MAN UP BABY
Did Woplfie “himself” have authority to do that (i.e tell them to employ more aggeressive techniiques)? Should he as a deputy? I mean, this seems to me like it should be communicated by Rummy, the President or Cheney.
They were evil from the beginning. The Bushies were end justifies
theANY means folks. 9/11 made all their dreams come true.stupidest fucking guy i think was what tommy franks said.
I have my theories also, but the point is there was never a credible investigation done. I’ve read some quotes by Lee Hamilton about 9/11 and I can say with certainty that I know more about 9/11 than he apparently does.
This is the only example I can think of.
Not sure any God has time for this …we have to get out of this ourselves.
Sweet Jeebus it just gets worse by the day.
So not only did we institute (what some critics call) an illegal torture program, but the goal wasn’t even to stop another 9/11 or track down Al Q! It was to prop up Bush’s vanity war.
That’s what we gave up our values as a nation for.
the oil/neo/theo cons all on the same page much of the time
Wondered why Paul Wolfowitz seemed to be hiding out. Wolfowitz is up to his neck in the blood of the Iraqi people and American soldiers.
These creeps were committed to fixing the intelligence to prop up their claims…the order to torture just fall into line with their agenda
I have forgotten what it is. When he accidently tried to open a door that was locked when he was in China?
Maybe I read an edited for print version
The link was to the video from that presser.
Here is an amusing clip. Never actually happened, unfortunately.
He knows he’s guilty? Or Karl does not want any Neocons around saying stuff in public to mess up the Bush legacy project.
good one.
He has kept a low profile since he embarrassed himself at the World Bank. I’m certain he still has many nefarious, lucrative pans in the fire.
“It was to prop up Bush’s vanity war.”
Incredible, and depressing, to think that pivotal moments in history are sometimes due to the most mundane of reasons-a little man’s ego.
That sums up everything right there, we were not protecting America we were trying to find reasons after the fact to justify the Presidents stated reasons for going to war.
By trying to excuse one war crime an illegal war we did an even worse war crime and tortured people not about 9/11 or where is Ossama but to find the imaginary Iraq Al Quieda link thats exists only in Cheney’s head.
So there’s a chapter title in a book I read recently that is something like: If Tommy Franks Can Recognize the Stupidest Man on Earth, that Doesn’t Make Him Smart. (Maybe it was Bacevich’s Limits of Power. Not sure.)
All this stuff that’s coming out on torture was easily knowable in less than a month’s worth of reading, or at least that’s how long it took me to learn. Not a mystery, for example, that false confessions are a prime objective.
it was for this make NO MISTAKE
Exxon Bumps Wal-Mart to Become No. 1 on Fortune 500
By Antonio Perez
Epoch Times Staff Apr 21, 2009
(Scott Olson/Getty Images)
Exxon Mobil Corp., the world’s largest oil and gas company, beat out retailer Wal-Mart Stores Inc. to become the new number one atop Fortune magazine’s annual list of 500 largest publicly traded companies.
The prestigious Fortune 500 list measures company size by annual revenues, and the new list released on Sunday showed Exxon reporting a whopping $442.9 billion in 2008 revenues despite a decrease in global energy prices and slumping demand.
Wal-Mart, the U.S. discount retail chain, was the largest company in six of the past seven years. Last year Wal-Mart brought in $405 billion in revenues.
The biggest difference between Wal-Mart and Exxon is in profit. Exxon was also the most profitable public company in 2008, reporting more than $45 billion in net profit. Wal-Mart was ranked number five, with $13.4 billion in profit last year.
The recent oil boom buoyed other major energy giants, as Chevron came in third place and ConocoPhillips came in fourth on the Fortune 500 list.
My 39 was to you
sadlyyes,
Sadly, yes I agree.
uh-oh, Andrea Mitchell doesn’t like Ron Suskind telling her that prosecuting someone like Gonzalez may be the means necessary to get at the real deciders, the higher-ups, namely Bush and her BFF Lynn’s hubby, Chee-knee.
Wonder what’s gonna be in that chili Friday this week, eh, Andrea?
Tax them and do not let them pass on the costs to consumers let them keep 2-5% of their net profit.
Any GOPers attack this plan we counter attack that they are in the pay of the oil industry.
Given the high oil prices recently that should kill any national ambitions for any of the oil patch Politicians.
We blame the politicians and the oil companies for the war for oil, did not Rupert owner of Fox News say that the war was a good idea because it would bring down the price of oil.
Did not his Fox News Cheerlead every lie that got us into this war?
Fair and Balanced seems to mean equal time for the opposite side. the side that lies the side that opposes the truth and makes facts up, Fox News gives the Prince of Lies equal time!
I think I got a meme the Jesus Camp voters might like.
The Conventional Wisdom crowd held accountable Andrea’s husband Greenspan might be held personally liable for the economy then.
Oh, Shrub is easily embarrassed, hence his readiness to anger, which is a fear reaction. He’s embarrassed by any suggestion that he didn’t earn his way to the top, that he relied on help from others. A sensitivity that could only elicit guffaws from those who’ve really done that. He becomes incensed when anyone criticizes his family for what it’s actually done, including give us him.
I overstated my comment #15. It is the job of some of those officials to set policy regarding interrogations, but it’s usually restricted to making sure they comply with the law.
What OVP seems to have done is completely corrupt the lawyers responsible for telling executive agencies what that law was. That led the OLC to issue memos that allowed its co-conspirators to tell recalcitrant professionals, who knew that they were being told to break the law, to STFU.
Mr. Cheney was a bureaucratic saboteur. Instead of knowing how to sink a submarine by twisting a few seacocks, or sending a guided missile tumbling out of control by snipping its circuits, he sent the bureaucracy into a tailspin trying to avoid his pointed, incessant ire or comply with it. I think it’s Mr. Cheney most of all who deserves no peace in his retirement. Perhaps his experiences to come will give him a new-found respect for lawyers, at least his own.
Bush could not have been the worst President in our history without a lot of help. In this regard, Wolfowitz was one of the giants. These were guys who could stare the obvious in the face and then do what was the most catastrophically wrong thing to do. You could come up with a list of 50 of the top players in the Bush Administration and they all would be perfect synonyms for fuck-ups and failure.
Lousy hair-licking bastard. I loathe him.
Who thinks Bush will back out of his ‘debate’ with President Clinton in Canada next month?
There was a push to arrest him last time he went there. Now, with all this torture info coming out, our Canadian friends will be primed for a showdown.
Hey, don’t forget his enablers in the House and Senate.
Haven’t finished reading Levin’s report yet … but one thing I find interesting is the quick substitution of the opinions from DoJ into the process that is, in effect, the chain of command, when it became clear that legal advisors to the various services, and Moro, were screwing up Rumsfeld’s desire to simply have the military review process back up decisions he had already made.
It is truly amazing that all this new detail backs up some simple truths we were treated to some years back — the British Opinion in the summer of 2002 in the Downing Street Memo, that intelligence was being fixed, and that short summary in Ron Suskind’s work that we were an empire now, and we make our own reality. Such simple truths…
Sorry, my last comment was to Hugh.
Hey, don’t forget his enablers in the House and Senate.
Senator Levin just said on MSNBC that Jane Dalton the lawyer for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was working on a legal assessment of the request for authority to use these techniques when she got word from the Chairman that the attorney for the Secretary of Defense wanted that assessment to stop.
He mentioned the “squelching of dissent.”
John McCain ,who endorsed the document, and others just sent a letter to President Obama asking that the lawyers not be prosecuted. Is that Cheney trying to protect Addington?
As we discovered at the Nurmemburg Trials the banality of evil was the most confounding feature of the defendents. History repeats itself. The second time as farce. So we find bureaucrats in the bush administration writing memos and approving torture as simply and matter of factly as possible. Every one of them, from the CIA people who came up with the idea that using North Korean interrogation techniques from the Korean war(used in SERE classes) to the lawyers in DoJ who strained to come up with legal defenses to others such as POTUS and VPOTUS along with people working directly for them and SecDef rumsfeld are simply normal people. With blind spots where their humanity should be. The evil is so banal. The people who did this were mostly lifelong bureaucrats, the gray people who simply did what they were told without thought. The German defense was; Orders are orders. That did not work then, it should not work now. But what about those who physically did the torturing? Were they simply doing what they were told? Or are sadists so easy to find? Listening to the arguments being raised thruout the internet and in the MSM one has to wonder, just how shallow is our civilization? We make laws so that large numbers of people can live and function together without-for the most part-killing each other. Again, is it really this easy to discard our civilized manner and revert to the law of the jungle? Aside from laws, which it seems a govt can simply ignore, what is to prevent a future govt from doing this again? What is to prevent a police agency from torturing prisoners(now I would say that before Miranda-and some up to this day-prisoners were routinely tortured to get confessions)what is to prevent torture from becoming used on a daily basis by all police/law agencies in the US? What is to prevent torture from being enshrined in law? Used in court to determine guilt? As the bush administration did and as the Obama administration seems to want to cover up. ….Anyone? I think that I can see why Obama does not want to dig further into this. Currently the US is an equally divided country. If the Obama administration were to push hard for trials from those who were responsible, would it tear the country apart? The rethugs are quite up in arms over this. But how many want to go forward? Congress would be torn apart over this. Remember how the repigs backed everything that bush did? Remember how they stifled dissent? Would forcing this onto the public stage result in the rethugs retaking the govt? Something to think about, no??
One thing that I must take note of is that all who were involved in this that have been named seem to be Authoritarians. Some Followers=AFs and some leaders=ALs, but all of them with an authoritarian mindset. Maybe it takes an authoritarian to order torture or to accept that torture is not only merely normal but should be used. I can not name 1 person who is defending torture who is not of an authoritarian mindset.
Current studies show that about 30% of people in the US are authoritarian, either leaders or followers. These people have a mindset that allows them see as normal behavior things that non authoritarians believe are horrifying
“don’t forget his enablers”
they sure have trying hard to keep a lid on accountability for quite some time
In Ron Susskind’s book the “Price of Loyalty” former Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’neil insinuates that it was Wolfowitz and Cheney pushing for a confrontation with Iraq far more than Rumfeld.
Where has Wolowitz been hiding out since he lost his job at the World Bank
First, Chalabi gave us “CurveBall” and just about everything else he gave us was useless on Iraq.
Besides Chalabi, members of the administration had also hitched their wagons to Laurie Mylroie who had the same cockamamie theory.
What we had was another example of the Bush administration committing the logical error of beginning with a conclusion and then seeking supporting evidence, all the while rejecting that which was contrary.
Beginning shortly after 9/11, the Bush administration was repeatedly told by our intelligence agencies there was no al Qaeda/Iraq connection. This is what the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence reported and so did the 9/11 Commission and British intelligence told us the same thing.
“You can’t distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam.”
– President George W. Bush, Sept. 25, 2002
“If we’re successful in Iraq…then we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who had us under assault for many years, but most especially on 9/11…..”
– Vice President Dick Cheney, Sept. 14, 2003, on Meet the Press
“There’s overwhelming evidence” [of an al Qaeda/Iraq connection]
– Vice President Dick Cheney, Jan. 2004
So it wasn’t to stop a ticking time bomb?
It was for Bush to get justification for invading Iraq?
But that couldn’t be right.
Was it faith-based or wish-based foreign policy when Bush & co believed…BELIEVED…it was Saddam who attacked us on 9/11?
They certainly tried hard enough to show a connection between AQ and Saddam.
They seemed to certainly accept that AQ WAS involved. What was their evidence? It still doesn’t feel as though the most solid evidence of their involvement, aside from the appearance of their modus operandi, has been made public. Why was there almost immediate certainty that it was AQ?
Officer: Your papers sir!
timr: Here they are.
Officer: Everything appears to be in order. Keep walking.
Mylroie wrote a book with Judy Miller who used Chalabi as a source for various things about the Middle East. It’s therefore quite easy to imagine Chalabi was the ONLY source, though filtered through various people.
And, Chalabi had a self interest in telling his story.