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	<title>Comments on: Soufan, The DOJ IG Report And The FBI&#8217;s Role In Torture: We Need More Texture</title>
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	<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/</link>
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		<title>By: Jeff Kaye</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9701</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Kaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 18:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9701</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;4 - Soufan was aware of and utilizing much more than just “isolation” on al-Qahtani. Spencer’s article makes clear that there were efforts at time dislocation, sensory overload (constant white light), and exposure to extreme cold. Soufan apparently also used the “futility” approach, e.g., “this is your place until you change your story.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Al-Qahtani was a key prisoner, in that he was evidently a test or experimental case for various interrogation techniques. The Aug. 2, 2002 Gitmo &lt;a href=&quot;http://valtinsblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/minutes-from-torturers-meeting-at.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;minutes&lt;/a&gt; on a “counter-resistance strategy” meeting at Guantanamo (the one that included CIA counsel Fredman, of whom Spencer wrote the other day) specifically mentions analyzing the “certain types of deprivation and psychological stressors” used on al-Qahtani.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s a very good, very comprehensive article by Spencer, but I have two additions. One is to note that it was the FBI’s supposed “effective” interrogation that brought about the “intel” on Jose Padilla and the “dirty bomb”, claims that never held up, if they were ever true in any sense to begin with.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Secondly, the record of the FBI is far worse than usually portrayed, and again Spencer is right on this, though he need not be apologetic. The FBI abuse begins right after 9/11, especially with the case of John Walker Lindh, per the narrative of former Justice Department official &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/2/10933/44543/616/527217&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jesselyn Radack&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;In 2001, I told the Criminal Division, which was advising the FBI in Afghanistan, that Lindh could not be interrogated without his counsel. That was on a Friday. The Criminal Division called back on Monday and said that the FBI had interrogated him anyway. They wanted to know what to do. I advised that the interview would have to be sealed and used only for national security purposes or intelligence-gathering, not criminal prosecution. Again, my advice was ignored.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Three months later, I inadvertently learned of a discovery order, which had been deliberately concealed from me, for all Justice Department correspondence related to Lindh’s interrogation. When I went to comply, my e-mails had been purged from the file. With the help of technical support, I recovered them from my computer, turned them over to my boss, took home a copy in case they “disappeared” again, and resigned. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As the criminal case barreled toward trial, the Justice Department continued to assert that Lindh was never represented by counsel and that his rights had been “carefully, scrupulously guarded.” I did not believe the Justice Department would have the temerity to make public statements contradicted by its own court filings if my e-mails had indeed reached the court. So I blew the whistle, which unleashed a torrent of retaliation….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;In 2002, my lawyer made it abundantly clear to the OIG that I took several steps to thwart efforts to conceal material regarding Lindh’s interrogation from the court. In January 2003, Inspector General Glenn Fine, who issued the recent FBI report, told my attorney that the OIG had looked into my whistleblower allegations and was not going to pursue them. (OIG did not look too searchingly because it did not even bother to interview me, the complainant.) To add insult to injury, OIG turned my case over for criminal prosecution, which eventually closed with no charges ever being brought. But the Justice Department was not through with me yet. It put me on the “No-Fly List” and referred me to the state bars in which I’m licensed as an attorney, based on a secret report - by the OIG - to which I did not have access.&lt;/strong&gt; [emphasis in original]&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When the DoJ OIG report came out, I &lt;a href=&quot;http://valtinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/jesselyn-radack-on-oig-whitewash-on-fbi.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;labeled it&lt;/a&gt; “a limited hangout, i.e., an admission of some crimes, but a cover-up of the total barbaric scenario unfolding in Bush’s torture prisons.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/35403prs20080520.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The ACLU said:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;“Today’s OIG report reveals that top government officials in the Defense Department, CIA and even as high as the White House turned a blind eye to torture and abuse and failed to act aggressively to end it,” said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. “Moreover, the country’s top law enforcement agency — the FBI — did not take measures to enforce the law but only belatedly reported on the law’s violations. It’s troubling that the government seems to have been more concerned with obscuring the facts than with enforcing the law and stopping the torture and abuse of detainees. Had the government taken action in 2002, perhaps the disgrace of Abu Ghraib and other abuses could have been avoided.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Note, btw, that the OIG report says that the CIA never allowed OIG to interview Zubaydah; such questioning then might have cleared up some of the questions we have now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Keep asking the questions, Spencer. I think we’ll find that while some FBI agents protested, most were concerned, and certainly the agency itself was mostly concerned with covering its own legal ass. We will also find that some higher officials in FBI were more closely tied to the SERE story than has been thus far revealed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4 &#8211; Soufan was aware of and utilizing much more than just “isolation” on al-Qahtani. Spencer’s article makes clear that there were efforts at time dislocation, sensory overload (constant white light), and exposure to extreme cold. Soufan apparently also used the “futility” approach, e.g., “this is your place until you change your story.”</p>
<p>Al-Qahtani was a key prisoner, in that he was evidently a test or experimental case for various interrogation techniques. The Aug. 2, 2002 Gitmo <a href="http://valtinsblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/minutes-from-torturers-meeting-at.html" rel="nofollow">minutes</a> on a “counter-resistance strategy” meeting at Guantanamo (the one that included CIA counsel Fredman, of whom Spencer wrote the other day) specifically mentions analyzing the “certain types of deprivation and psychological stressors” used on al-Qahtani.</p>
<p>It’s a very good, very comprehensive article by Spencer, but I have two additions. One is to note that it was the FBI’s supposed “effective” interrogation that brought about the “intel” on Jose Padilla and the “dirty bomb”, claims that never held up, if they were ever true in any sense to begin with.</p>
<p>Secondly, the record of the FBI is far worse than usually portrayed, and again Spencer is right on this, though he need not be apologetic. The FBI abuse begins right after 9/11, especially with the case of John Walker Lindh, per the narrative of former Justice Department official <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/2/10933/44543/616/527217" rel="nofollow">Jesselyn Radack</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>In 2001, I told the Criminal Division, which was advising the FBI in Afghanistan, that Lindh could not be interrogated without his counsel. That was on a Friday. The Criminal Division called back on Monday and said that the FBI had interrogated him anyway. They wanted to know what to do. I advised that the interview would have to be sealed and used only for national security purposes or intelligence-gathering, not criminal prosecution. Again, my advice was ignored.</p>
<p>Three months later, I inadvertently learned of a discovery order, which had been deliberately concealed from me, for all Justice Department correspondence related to Lindh’s interrogation. When I went to comply, my e-mails had been purged from the file. With the help of technical support, I recovered them from my computer, turned them over to my boss, took home a copy in case they “disappeared” again, and resigned. </p>
<p>As the criminal case barreled toward trial, the Justice Department continued to assert that Lindh was never represented by counsel and that his rights had been “carefully, scrupulously guarded.” I did not believe the Justice Department would have the temerity to make public statements contradicted by its own court filings if my e-mails had indeed reached the court. So I blew the whistle, which unleashed a torrent of retaliation….</p>
<p><strong>In 2002, my lawyer made it abundantly clear to the OIG that I took several steps to thwart efforts to conceal material regarding Lindh’s interrogation from the court. In January 2003, Inspector General Glenn Fine, who issued the recent FBI report, told my attorney that the OIG had looked into my whistleblower allegations and was not going to pursue them. (OIG did not look too searchingly because it did not even bother to interview me, the complainant.) To add insult to injury, OIG turned my case over for criminal prosecution, which eventually closed with no charges ever being brought. But the Justice Department was not through with me yet. It put me on the “No-Fly List” and referred me to the state bars in which I’m licensed as an attorney, based on a secret report &#8211; by the OIG &#8211; to which I did not have access.</strong> [emphasis in original]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>When the DoJ OIG report came out, I <a href="http://valtinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/jesselyn-radack-on-oig-whitewash-on-fbi.html" rel="nofollow">labeled it</a> “a limited hangout, i.e., an admission of some crimes, but a cover-up of the total barbaric scenario unfolding in Bush’s torture prisons.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/35403prs20080520.html" rel="nofollow">The ACLU said:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>“Today’s OIG report reveals that top government officials in the Defense Department, CIA and even as high as the White House turned a blind eye to torture and abuse and failed to act aggressively to end it,” said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. “Moreover, the country’s top law enforcement agency — the FBI — did not take measures to enforce the law but only belatedly reported on the law’s violations. It’s troubling that the government seems to have been more concerned with obscuring the facts than with enforcing the law and stopping the torture and abuse of detainees. Had the government taken action in 2002, perhaps the disgrace of Abu Ghraib and other abuses could have been avoided.” </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Note, btw, that the OIG report says that the CIA never allowed OIG to interview Zubaydah; such questioning then might have cleared up some of the questions we have now.</p>
<p>Keep asking the questions, Spencer. I think we’ll find that while some FBI agents protested, most were concerned, and certainly the agency itself was mostly concerned with covering its own legal ass. We will also find that some higher officials in FBI were more closely tied to the SERE story than has been thus far revealed.</p>
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		<title>By: ratfood</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9696</link>
		<dc:creator>ratfood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9696</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If true, this is a really ugly side of Obama we’d not yet seen. Declining to prosecute the authors of the torture policy is bad enough. Threatening to withhold intelligence from allies who won’t help conceal that torture takes it to another level.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If true, this is a really ugly side of Obama we’d not yet seen. Declining to prosecute the authors of the torture policy is bad enough. Threatening to withhold intelligence from allies who won’t help conceal that torture takes it to another level.</p>
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		<title>By: dosido</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9695</link>
		<dc:creator>dosido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9695</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks for the linky.  it really is a Pandora’s box isn’t it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the linky.  it really is a Pandora’s box isn’t it?</p>
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		<title>By: ratfood</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9693</link>
		<dc:creator>ratfood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9693</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In related news, Glen Greenwald has a column this morning about how the Obama Administration threatened to suspend intelligence sharing with the UK if a court publicized details of how the CIA had tortured a detainee.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/12/obama/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama administration threatens Britain to keep torture evidence concealed&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In related news, Glen Greenwald has a column this morning about how the Obama Administration threatened to suspend intelligence sharing with the UK if a court publicized details of how the CIA had tortured a detainee.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/12/obama/" rel="nofollow">Obama administration threatens Britain to keep torture evidence concealed</a></p>
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		<title>By: JoeBuck</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9692</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeBuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9692</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Unless there’s more than you say here, it seems that the interrogator recommended isolation, but none of the other abusive practices associated with Yoo, Bybee, and Guantanamo, though he was aware of worse things going on.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless there’s more than you say here, it seems that the interrogator recommended isolation, but none of the other abusive practices associated with Yoo, Bybee, and Guantanamo, though he was aware of worse things going on.</p>
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		<title>By: dosido</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9691</link>
		<dc:creator>dosido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9691</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow. Good work Spencer.  If only more journalists did the legwork you do, it’d be a working democracy!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Good work Spencer.  If only more journalists did the legwork you do, it’d be a working democracy!!!</p>
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		<title>By: sghiteinfla</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9687</link>
		<dc:creator>sghiteinfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 14:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh and thats an excellent piece by you in the Independent.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and thats an excellent piece by you in the Independent.</p>
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		<title>By: sghiteinfla</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9686</link>
		<dc:creator>sghiteinfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 14:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/05/12/soufan-the-doj-ig-report-and-the-fbis-role-in-torture-we-need-more-texture/#comment-9686</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As I reflect back on that time period one thing I remember vividly was how much of 9-11 was blamed on poor cooperation and coordination within the intelligence agencies.  I wonder if that influenced the FBI’s decision to continue to work with the CIA on these interrogations even after questions had been raised about the tactics being used.  I don’t necessarily look at Soufan as a white hat for his actions but I do appreciate the fact that he spoke up to correct the record on Zubaydah.  But another question has to be asked eventually and that is why if he saw these things and why if it became well known that it was going on at FBI headquarters wasn’t anyone arrested on the spot?  To that end I kind of have a question.  I am almost positive that if the CIA was torturing an American citizen then the FBI would have jurisdiction to arrest and bring those agents in who participated.  But when it comes to the CIA torturing foreign agents at a time predating the Supreme Court ruling that the Geneva Conventions applied to enemy combatants, would the FBI even have jurisdiction?  I think before its all said and done someone will end up having to answer that question.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I reflect back on that time period one thing I remember vividly was how much of 9-11 was blamed on poor cooperation and coordination within the intelligence agencies.  I wonder if that influenced the FBI’s decision to continue to work with the CIA on these interrogations even after questions had been raised about the tactics being used.  I don’t necessarily look at Soufan as a white hat for his actions but I do appreciate the fact that he spoke up to correct the record on Zubaydah.  But another question has to be asked eventually and that is why if he saw these things and why if it became well known that it was going on at FBI headquarters wasn’t anyone arrested on the spot?  To that end I kind of have a question.  I am almost positive that if the CIA was torturing an American citizen then the FBI would have jurisdiction to arrest and bring those agents in who participated.  But when it comes to the CIA torturing foreign agents at a time predating the Supreme Court ruling that the Geneva Conventions applied to enemy combatants, would the FBI even have jurisdiction?  I think before its all said and done someone will end up having to answer that question.</p>
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