The truth as they see it often has very little if anything to do with actual truth. I’ve been following politics for 20 years, and I’d say Joe Liebs has a pretty tenuous relationship w/the truth himself. Also, he is a complete asshat.

All generalities are false? It’s an organization of spies, and as such is powered by an institutional mythology of grayhat heroism. They were antiheroes before antiheroism was cool, and it’s that certitude of their old-school hipness that they cling to ever harder to deal with the welter of criticisms you cite above.

The agency is a lying agency even if not all of the agents are liars.

All generalities are false. Especially the one I just offered.

Did that just blow your mind? I’m that kind of writer.

Does anybody remember that the CIA’s Asst. IG accused some CIA briefer of telling an outright lie to Congress, and the IG had to report it to Congress? That episode seems to have fallen down the memory hole.

While clearly your readership is composed entirely of liberals seeking refuge from the constant ignorant repetition of the ‘no one’s ever won a war in Afganistan’ meme, it’s also obviously the case that we all love the kind of writing that blows minds.

“constant ignorant repetition of the ‘no one’s ever won a war in Afganistan’ meme”

Who has won a war in Afganistan?

Didn’t the White House issue a Presidential dictat at some point that they would have absolute control over who and when the CIA would brief Congress?
I recall some such Executive Order being issued…oh yes…here it is

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/gwb100501.html

Who has won a war in Afganistan?

Afghans. Also, Alexander the Great.

As per billinturkey, the Pashtun. The Baloch wouldn’t be nearly so pissed off if the Pashtun hadn’t spent the majority of their mutual history making imperial subjects out of them. Likewise just about every other ethnicity in and around Afghanistan. There’s also a belief amongst the Dari-speaking groups that their empire(’the real Persian Empire’) died in Iran, as opposed to the Iranian view that their empire (also ‘the real Persian Empire’) died in Afghanistan.

Why in the hell the Democrats tolerate Lieberman’s persistent traitorous ways I will never know

why are the democrats allowing lieberman in the party?

throw this idiot out, anyway;

More evidence needs to be introduced before concluding that the CIA lied to Pelosi. But no additional evidence needs to be introduced to conclude that it wouldn’t.

err joe;

weren’t there those cia reports that saddam had wmd’s it knew as a fact were not there?

forget that much?

wasn’t cheney’s “team b” part of the cia?…did you NOT know they to undermine the treaty of detante by behest cheney.rumsfeld?

you joe are a maggot

As I said last night, the null hypothesis should be that the CIA is lying, and they should have to prove they’re not.

“the truth as they see it” — sheesh even for JoeLie that is a lamentable non-denial-denial.

Who has won a war in Afganistan?

Trick question. Of course, the Afghani’s. They’ve won every war so far (at least in modern times).

And Ollie North lied for the “common good”. I guess he was telling the truth as he saw it. Right Joe

As we watch this all out war between Pelosi and the CIA, I keep wondering where Panetta is. His one “caveat”, suggesting that the CIA release should be taken with a grain of salt, doesn’t seem to me to be adequate. Who is orchestrating this thing at CIA?

This is the agency that destroyed 98 video tapes of them performing torture to protect their a**es So I don’t think they lie Har Har Har

I find the tiiming of Joe’s statement interesting.

In Nancy’s quiet reflective moments late at night, I sense she may have a modicum of regret for taking impeachment off the table. She’s now fighting for her political career and those whom she sought to protect have the knives out for her. One of those, of course, is Lieberman who Cheney holds up as a shining example of bipartisanship.

Lieberman is still carrying Cheney’s water.

Two must read books are Tim Weiner’s “Legacy of Ashes” about the covert aka bungling side of the CIA and Melvin Goodman’s “Failure of Intelligence” about the analyst side that for a time was pretty good until it was totally politicized in the 1980s when Gates was Casey’s 2nd at the CIA.

“Legacy of Ashes” is shocking in how many agents were well bred Ivy League James Bond wannabees who screwed up time and time again getting most things wrong. There was an attempt in the 1990s to return it to its original function as a analysis unit for the president, but that died and Tenet returned to using the CIA expressly to parrot the president’s wishes.

CIA and the Culture of Failure’s another good one.

Spencer your take on the CIA seems spot on. I was amazed by how many former CIA analyst came out before the illegal invasion and said an invasion would be idiotic based on questionable intelligence.

Also how many have come out against torture and supporting following International agreements

Lieberman is still carrying Cheney’s water.

Bathwater…and keeping a dipper handy for a refreshing sip now and again.

;>)

There is also a very good chapter in Chalmers Johnson’s book, Nemesis, that goes in depth on the CIA and its history and role in blowback.

I still want to know what forces kept Lieberman in charge of the Senate Homeland Security committee, even after he campaigned against Obama and said America couldn’t afford to elect him.

Maybe Jane Harman told Diane Feinstein to give Chuck Schumer a call, and after a quick conference call with Saban and Michael Chertoff, Rahm was instructed to direct Obama to let Leiberman keep his chair.

Something disgusting like that…

“GOP House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA) and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) circulated a letter to colleagues this week urging President Obama to support Israel when moving forward with any Israeli peace process.

Trouble is, they forgot to delete the name of the lobbying group involved in the letter from the document.

Attached to the email message they circulated when seeking signatures from other members of Congress was the document, titled, “AIPAC Letter Hoyer Cantor May 2009.pdf.””
http://rawstory.com/08/news/20…..-to-obama/

Why is Pelosi out there all alone? Naturally, Hoyer is not going to cover her back. But Panetta is supposed to be Obama’s guy. And what about Rahm? It just seems weird to me. We need Nancy Pelosi.

“On that specific point I totally disagree. Over the 20 years I’ve been here, I’ve been briefed constantly by the CIA, and I’d say they’ve told me the truth as they see it.”

The problem with this statement is that it’s content free.

It’s my belief that Al-Libi was an ‘officer’ in Saddam Hussein’s Military Apparatus, and I have not seen any information that makes me conclude otherwise. Thus, Al-Libi HAD to be accorded the status of POW in keeping with the Geneva Conventions Against Torture. Moreover, seeing Cheney on the airwaves, is his typical insolence of such noteworthy behavior for HopLogia Phobia in order to ‘deny, deflect, and divert’.

Now, if Nana Pelosi’s staff were to investigate and reaffirm that Al-Libi was factually an officer in the Military Apparatus, the CIA should be challenged in a manner in which the Legal Eagles conspired with the OLC to intentionally circumvent the Rule of Law. Thus, all the ‘briefings’ were features for institutional self-aggrandizement.

As an aside, we here in ChicanoLandia prefer to use the more affectionate term of “nana” for Speaker Pelosi, and thusly, LiarMan has once again, pissed us off for indirectly impugning her Integrity.

Jaango

Not so sure “they forgot”. More likely they wanted the Members to know who wanted the letter circulated.

al Libi was AQ not Iraqi.

Crazy Horse has won a war in Afganistan. Trick answer.

loved it yesterday when Lawrence O Donnell slapped some gooper with this -

Senator Moynihan:

I served for 8 years on the Intelligence Committee. I joined it the first year after it was created. And in those 8 years I was very closely associated with Barry Goldwater, a man revered in this institution not least because he was incapable of lying. For 4 years I was the vice chairman of the committee and he was chairman and we spent a very great deal of time together. At that time there was an understanding, which I am sure exists today, that there are some matters which, if the chairman and vice chairman are notified about, it can be considered that the Senate has been informed. Unfortunately, this is an Agency which has lied to Congress before. Egregiously.

Perhaps the most extraordinary example was the concerted campaign launched in the spring of 1984 when it emerged that the Central Intelligence Agency had mined harbors in Nicaragua–arguably a violation of international law and treaty, but inarguably a significant anticipated action. As I recall the language of the statute, `the committee will be informed of significant anticipated activities.’ We were not.

Congressional Record

oh, and just for fun: Addington was an assistant general counsel for the Central Intelligence Agency from 1981 to 1984

Jane has a new post up on the front page: “Advice to Wingnuts: Don’t Believe Pelosi on CIA Lying? Buy a Calendar”

I stand corrected @29. And I thank you! Now, you know why I appreciate the outstanding knowledge base here at the Lake.

Jaango

go check out where and who a great deal of the Homeland Security funds went with Liebermann in charge

Graham coming out with facts has helped her. Although you are right where are the rest of the Dems coming out and backing her up.

As many point out including EW get back to focusing on who re wrote the torture laws and who ordered “authorized” them to be used? Although I do agree that Pelosi should have aggressively pushed back when she found out what she found out having to do with the torture policy

We need to get back to WHO BROKE THE LAW AND INTERNATIONAL TREATIES

People who join the CIA are, innately, fanatics.

That’s right, the Chalmers Johnson Chapter “CIA: The President’s Private Army” is pretty devastating as is the whole book. Porter Goss told the CIA folks in 2004 that it was their job first and foremost to protect the president from being held acccountable for…um…anything. The CIA has a budget that is unaccountable (black) as is 40% of the Pentagon’s and Johnson said that reporting to Congress is just theater “for the few Americans left who are concerned about constitutional government”.

eCAHNomics,

I went back and found that Charles Duelfer of the Iraq Survey Group was imposed on to consider torturing an Iraqi intelligence official and he refused. And thank you for making me do some ‘better’ home work. Thus, today, I wear the Dunce Cap and Stand in the Corner.

Jaango

But no additional evidence needs to be introduced to conclude that [the CIA] wouldn’t [lie to Congress].

Huh?

Joe LIeberman talks out of both sides of his mouth:

Her is Joe Lieberman disagreeing with the 2007 Iran NIE which said that the CIA had stopped its nuclear weapons program:

“But neither do I make the mistake of believing in the infallibility or absolute impartiality of people in intelligence.”

http://lieberman.senate.gov/ne…..?id=292673

Corrected repost:

Joe Lieberman talks out of both sides of his mouth:

Here is Joe Lieberman disagreeing with the 2007 Iran NIE in which the CIA said that Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons program:

“But neither do I make the mistake of believing in the infallibility or absolute impartiality of people in intelligence.”

http://lieberman.senate.gov/ne…..?id=292673

Double triple speak and obfuscation, like the circular logic of Cheney;

Torture is against the law.
We are not allowed to break the law,
Therefore we didn’t torture.

Hey, if we need to hang Pelosi out as bait to get the Republicans to agree to the investigation, so be it.

The Mongols

“I’d say they’ve told me the truth as they see it.”

This is the definition of a liar, isn’t it? Telling the truth as they see it rather than as it is?

Convicts are always innocent, as they see it. Pyramid games really worked, from Ponzi’s point of view. Investing with Madoff guaranteed returns, as Madoff saw it. Lieberman is truly a Democrat, as … well enough of that.

I love this. I’m going to use it on a blog post I’m working on. I will make sure to mention you and Spencer. Thanks for posting this. LOL

Here’s the blog post I did that I mentioned in my previous post @ 47.

In reading the Senate transcript about the CIA disinformation campaign against Goldwater I found a comment by Moynihan where he also expresses his dislike for our current Defense Sec., Robert Gates. Very interesting.

I forgot to add the blog post link. LOL I’ll have to do it this way because the edit feature won’t let you add it any other way.

http://democracity.blogspot.co…..dibly.html

Al Libi was not associated with Saddam Hussein. They tortured him into claiming he had knowledge about Hussein. You drank the kool-aid and are quite drunk.

The purpose of torture is to elicit false confessions. You can elicit the truth without torture. Watch good lawyers in the courtroom.

Was Lieberman briefed on waterboarding by the Bush administration CIA? Was he briefed on other obvious violations of international and federal law during the Bush adminsitration? If so, what did he do about it?

And, was he being briefed by the CIA when the appropriate members of Congress were not being briefed? I realize he was entitled to be briefed along with others. What is he talking about? He needs to come clean on this. He has asserted conclusions about his past experience with the CIA without establishing that the circumstances of his experiences were similar to those concerning Pelosi’s alleged briefings on waterboarding.

Lieberman is a detriment to the Senate.