To build on Daphne’s point, how can Obama reconcile these two claims?
The decisions that were made over the last eight years established an ad hoc legal approach for fighting terrorism that was neither effective nor sustainable – a framework that failed to rely on our legal traditions and time-tested institutions; that failed to use our values as a compass.
And:
I know that creating such a system poses unique challenges. Other countries have grappled with this question, and so must we. But I want to be very clear that our goal is to construct a legitimate legal framework for Guantanamo detainees – not to avoid one. In our constitutional system, prolonged detention should not be the decision of any one man. If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight. And so going forward, my Administration will work with Congress to develop an appropriate legal regime so that our efforts are consistent with our values and our Constitution.
Here the Bushies really do have a case that the Obama administration is approaching them with intellectual dishonesty. The rap on the military commissions for years from civil libertarians was that rather than use the system of court martials — with established procedures for the disputation of justice — the Bush administration was creating an entirely new apparatus with dubious process requirements, evidently designed to engineer a conviction. Here Obama is talking about a system outside the military commissions and outside the justice system that will hold people indefinitely (or "prolongued" detention, in Obama’s euphemism), that he’ll design… from scratch. The evident difference is that this time, Obama will consult with a Democratic-controlled congress so cowered by demagoguery that it’ll shut down funding for closing Guantanamo. Change we can believe in.
In the United Kingdom a few years ago, there was a prolonged and vigorous debate about the appropriate limits for holding terrorists in preventive detention. Tony Blair’s government wanted a 90-day preventive detention period. Parliament roundly rejected it, but pushed the limit to 28 days in detention before a detainee had to be either charged or released. According to this Guardian piece, that’s the longest of any comperable democracy.
I don’t know if that’s what Obama has in mind here. It doesn’t sound like it. But this is also a major new initiative, with little explanation brought to bear about it. How can the courts, which have rejected indefinite detention for years, possibly bless it in this case? Here’s Human Rights Watch’s Ken Roth, in a prepared statement:
“President Obama is absolutely right to emphasize that ignoring our values undermines rather than enhances America’s security,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “But allowing detention without trial creates a dangerous loophole in our justice system that mimics the Bush administration’s abusive approach to fighting terrorism.”
It’s enough to make you sympathize with Bush’s maligned lawyers. A little.
Crossposted to The Streak.



8 Comments
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I won’t lie I looked up the word ad hoc to make sure I had the right understanding of the word.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad+hoc
for the particular end or case at hand without consideration of wider application
I would say the difference lies in President Obama’s assertion that he would work with Congress and the Judiciary to come up with a new legal framework that they can all agree on that would be sustainable going forward in any and all future conflicts whereas the Bush Administration did not seek that consensus or even input from the other 2 branches of government and it can be argued that their tactics were never meant to be applicable going forward nor sustainable in the long term. But hey thats just my interpretation.
I should add that the notion of holding someone indefinitely without charges is not cool in my opinion but I just think that is the difference in the two positions.
However can’t we lock people up in this country against their will for psychological reasons if they are going to be a danger to themselves or others? Not saying its the same thing but just throwing it out there for conversation.
I noted it. It doesn’t strike me as particularly exculpatory. Efforts like these are the reason there’s a Bill of Rights and an independent judiciary.
Based on what we have already been able to observe of Obama’s style and practices, we know that “legitimate”, in his lexicon, requires a co-opting of something that already exists. Obamaic legitimacy by definition cannot be ad hoc; it must be extended into new things from places where legitimacy is already recognized(and such recognition is a matter of public and international opinion, not an empirical value). In this case legitimacy can only be achieved through adaptations made to either Bush’s military commissions or the normal legal system. The former lacks legitimacy amongst leftists and rationalists and the latter’s legitimacy in the specific field of terrorism prosecutions has been systematically undermined by the rightists, so fulfilling the President’s stated goal will require piping in additional legitimacy from(as he invoked) all of the federal branches and the Constitution itself, because all of these sources have been similarly devalued in one or more portions of the population.
PS. yes everyone loves the Constitution–right up until you start quoting from it
No one has ever explained why the existing systems of jurisprudence don’t work in the case of SOME Islamic Terror suspects. Of course, in many previous cases, there was no real impediment to arraigning, trying and convicting OTHER Islamic Terror suspects.
American Federal courts have systemic methodologies for dealing with classified and national security information and protecting all parties involved, and these methodologies have worked quite well in the past.
The concern, since both the Bush and Obama administrations assert an unquestioned requirement to manage these cases outside the existing American legal framework without ever offering a clear, cogent explanation of why that is necessary, is that the actual goals are either strictly political or extra constitutional in nature.
If that is an overly cynical perception on my part, I am more than prepared to listen to an explanation of why a special type of tribunal is necessary, and for that matter why due process is so completely impossible. If any of these people are truly dangerous, then simply prove they are criminals and incarcerate them. If they cannot be convicted, holding them indefinitely on the mere assertion of the President that they are dangerous seems to me to make them political prisoners, and renders any complaint about the behaviors of other authoritarian regimes somewhat laughable…
mikey
However can’t we lock people up in this country against their will for psychological reasons if they are going to be a danger to themselves or others?
Yeah, we quarantine the infectious as well. However, we don’t lock either of those in Supermax prisons, which are really kind of sucky places to be. If we have to create a new category of too-dangerous-to-be-free/too-innocent-to-be-convicted, it seems like we should have to invent some new non-punitive detention system. Access to lawyers, no solitary confinement, no requirement to endure continued interrogations, mail, access to lawyers, books, tv, etc. There should be some difference in the living standards between convicted criminals and unconvicted detainees. Even if some people are too dangerous to be free, dubious as that proposition may be, there’s absolutely no call for the government to be able to disappear people into solitary confinement.
Just curious, but if we had held all these people as full lawful combatants with all the rights that entails for all of this time, would we have ever been required to send them to trial, or can we just keep lawful combatants until the end of the “war”, i.e. until al Qaeda and the Taliban are disbanded?
It’s necessary because so many people believe it’s necessary. And it’s the nature of public opinion to be circular and kind of idiotic like that. There are plenty of good, just, effective policies that will simply never be popular enough to be enacted; honestly, any of these people who were tortured deserve reparations payments, which they will surely receive just as soon as we finish distributing all of these 40-acres-and-a-mule gift bags.
The indefinite detention class of detainees has always been at the heart of the legal dilemmas facing how to deal with alQ-affiliated folks where they don’t fit cleanly into either criminal law or the laws of war. The question of what to do with that grey area drove, or for the Cheneyites facilitated, nearly all of the Bush Admin’s grievous errors from the very outset.
The Bush Admin, unfortunately, embraced the ambiguity by setting up Guantanmo as extralegal. It then compounded that original sin by taking advantage of that giant sinkhole of ambiguity to stick everybody in it and torment them while they were at it. Being the total control freaks they were, they also tried to set up a kangaroo court in lieu of a legitimate military commission that could deal with the evidentiary challenges of battlefield rather than forensic evidence while preserving basic standards of fairness and justice.
So Obama is going to methodically attempt to unwind the morass of mistakes according to the principles he outlined today. But it still leaves us with the original question — that unfortunate gap where neither criminal law nor the laws of war can be applied readily but where there is also a clearly definable risk from an avowed enemy.
I’m not sure Obama has yet a clear notion of what the answer should be. But what he’s saying is that any answer is going to have to be one that is designed and authorized not only by the executive branch but by Congress through enabling legislation and by the judiciary, which will undoubtedly be required to review it. It will be an openly debated and shared “solution” that is openly “owned” by all branches of government and, accordingly, the citizenry.
And if, in the end, Congress or the judiciary can’t approve such a deviation from constitutional and common law principles of basic rights, then all three branches of government and the citizenry will also “own” that decision and share in the implications of any increase in risk to security that such a decision might imply.