Yesterday President Obama announced his intent to establish a system of preventive detention for the "toughest" case of stopping would-be terrorists from "carrying out an act of war" even when they "cannot be prosecuted for past crimes, in some cases because evidence may be tainted." The one of the seniormost officials in the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, though, has expressed reservations to such a system in the past.
Before Marty Lederman became deputy assistant attorney general for the OLC, he was a prolific blogger and Bush-administration critic (and before that, an OLC attorney during the late Clinton and early Bush years). Here, for instance, is an Opinio Juris colloquy with Brookings’ Benjamin Wittes about various detention issues. Wittes argued that Congress should "treat these detentions openly and candidly for what they are: preventive incarcerations designed to keep extremely dangerous individuals from acting on their deeply held murderous beliefs and instincts," calling preventive detentions "a psychological Rubicon we simply need to cross."
Lederman objected:
Sorry, but I’m staying on this (constitutional) side of that line. “Dangerousness,” as such — particularly dangerousness as evidenced primarily by one’s “deeply held beliefs” — is not a constitutionally valid ground, standing alone, to indefinitely incarcerate persons without the protections of a criminal trial. Indeed, even if the dangerousness is demonstrated by past criminal conduct, that is not a permissible ground for noncriminal detention. “General deterrence” of dangerous persons, the Court has repeatedly held, is a function “properly . . . of criminal law, not civil commitment.” (Kansas v. Crane.)
Now, this isn’t a direct contradiction of Obama’s approach to preventive detention, since he hasn’t announced — or, apparently, even decided — what that approach is. And reading through Lederman’s post, he’s arguing that Wittes’ position is overbroad when considering restrictions that various judges have placed on the basis for detention. But the argument he presents is certainly in tension with the general idea of preventive detention, since all preventive detention is predicated on the idea of unprosecutable "dangerousness," which Lederman rejects as a "constitutionally valid ground" for "noncriminal detention."
We don’t yet know how Obama will define the category for eligibility into his preventive detention system. Could American citizens fall into that category? We don’t know. Obama gave as examples of possible preventive-detention targets "people who’ve received extensive explosives training at al Qaeda training camps, or commanded Taliban troops in battle, or expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden, or otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans." One of Daphne’s posts earlier this week quoted an Obama Justice Department filing further specifying the category –
"persons that the President determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001″; “persons who harbored those responsible for those attacks; “and “persons who were part of, or substantially supported, Taliban or al Qaida forces or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act, or has directly supported hostilities, in aid of such enemy armed forces.”
–but a federal judge rejected that as overbroad as well. Accordingly, it’s unclear how federal judges will find any grounds for indefinite preventive detention to be constitutional. Lederman’s post, written long before he went into the administration, provides, at least, a legal foundation to ask whether it’s worth trying to test judges’ patience in the first place.
Crossposted to The Streak.



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Anyone who thinks this new preventive detention won’t eventually be applied to American citizens is dreaming. Once the constitutional line is crossed, how could the government not apply it to American citizens?
Probably ‘preventive detention’ will morph into ‘prisoner of war’. Someday, we should all live so long, when the war(s) are over, back home they go. This will not apply to US citizens. Relax, Teddy, geez.
Here is my thing, why has this morphed into “preventative detention” instead of “prolonged detention”? I am serious about that because I saw Rachel Maddow last night and I have seen Glenzilla and Digby and others all say that president Obama called for preventative or “preemptive” detention and I keep going back through the speech and thats not what I am getting from it. Here is what I saw.
Now maybe I just have too much faith in what President Obama is saying here and actually taking him literally is the wrong thing. But it seems clear to me that he is talking about people who HAVE committed a crime already but just can’t be prosecuted for it for whatever reason. Now I guess its preventative in that they don’t want them to be allowed to commit ANOTHER crime however I don’t think what he said lines up with the calls of analogies to the movie “Minority Report” or something of that nature. If there is something that I am missing then somebody please let me know but it seems that there are some people falling out on the fainting couch (not you Spencer) over something the President didn’t actually say yesterday.
But, but, if for some reason you cannot try your erstwhile perpetrator, but rather choose to simply incarcerate them indefinitely without a trial, then how have you actually established that they in fact committed this earlier crime?
Once again, if you indefinitely detain without process individuals strictly on the say-so of the political leadership, what you have are political prisoners.
It is the adversarial nature of the trial itself that is required to provide the legitimacy of the incarceration. That’s the way it’s always worked before, except for Soviet Gulags and our old friends the Stasi…
I get that part of it, but that doesn’t NECESSARILY mean that they didn’t commit a crime. And if in point of fact constructing this new process is done in the light of day and it truly includes both judicial and congressional oversight isn’t it much less likely that you would have people who are really innocent? There is a major difference between someone being guilty and being able to prove it in a court of law. Just ask O.J. Simpson or rather the families of the people who most of us believe lives he took.
Hmm. Not buying it. It seems to me to be a safe assumption that at some time in your life you have violated a statute, ie, committed a crime. In fact, I’d go so far as to assume that we could find and interview a number of your friends, neighbors, family and associates and develop a fairly detailed understanding of the nature and circumstances of that crime. Especially if we spoke with some people who didn’t like you or had an agenda counter to yours.
Of course, none of this would amount to the kind of evidence we could present to a jury, so it would not be possible to convict you. But it sounds to me like you wouldn’t have a problem with our deciding you were guilty anyway and incarcerating you for these “past crimes” for which we have established to an acceptable (to us) level of certainty that you have committed.
I’m sure you recognize the “slippery slope” argument, but it does as good a job of describing why due process under a rather strict set of rules is important. For me, to start to carve out a “because the president says so” exception to the rule of law is to leave open the probability, indeed the certainty of further abuse in the future. Best to just stick to the rules…
mikey