Goodness, gracious me! Glenn Kessler and Howard Schneider just posted a doozy on the WaPo site, which will put the cat among the pigeons! And why am I not surprised to find the fingerprints of our dear old friend and pardoned Iran-Contra criminal, Eliott Abrams, on this one.
The story begins when Nentanyahu came to meet Obama a week or so ago and got an earful wherever he went in DC, especially about halting the expansion of settlements. It wasn’t just at the White House and State Department. He also got a rude welcome on Capitol Hill among all those Congresscritters Bibi thought were his old buddies.
You know you’re on shaky ground when Rep. Robert Wexler (D-Fla) tells you, ""The Palestinians have enormous responsibilities, but the notion that Israel can continue to expand settlements, whether it be through natural growth or otherwise, without diminishing the capacity of a two-state solution is both unrealistic, and, I would respectfully suggest, hypocritical." Ah, hum.
But! Not to be discouraged by such a cool reception in DC, the Israelis are trying to push back, restating boldly that they have no plan to freeze settlements. You see, according to Bibi’s spokesman, until there are "final status arrangements," of which settlements are one, "it would not be fair to kill normal life inside existing communities."
Hmmm. Not fair to kill normal life. Let’s stop and think about that for a moment. Might there be some other folks in the neighborhood who share a similar sentiment that it’s unfair to kill normal life inside existing communities? Especially given that Israel undertook in Phase I of the Road Map to "take all necessary steps to help normalise Palestinian life…[and] also freeze[s] all settlement activity, consistent with the Mitchell report."
But, but… say the Israelis. George Bush gave Sharon a letter in 2004 that had caveats. And indeed Bush did. Here’s what the Wikipedia article on the Road Map for peace describes about the letter. [Note: this is a stable part of the Wikipedia Road Map article, so there seems to be consensus about its accuracy.]
On April 14, 2004, President George W. Bush wrote a letter to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon seeming to herald two significant changes or increased specifications to longstanding but ambiguous U.S. policy which had most recently been embodied in the road map. For the first time during the road map process, Bush indicated his expectations as to the outcome of the final status negotiations. The letter was widely seen as a triumph for Sharon, since Bush’s expectations seemed to favor Israel on two highly contentious issues. Regarding final borders, the letter stated: "In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli population centers, it is unrealistic that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949, and all previous efforts to negotiate a two-state solution have reached the same conclusion. It is realistic to expect that any final status agreement will only be achieved on the basis of mutually agreed changes that reflect these realities...". Second, regarding the Palestinian refugees’ right of return, Bush also stated: "It seems clear that an agreed, just, fair and realistic framework for a solution to the Palestinian refugee issue as part of any final status agreement will need to be found through the establishment of a Palestinian state and the settling of Palestinian refugees there rather than Israel."
So far, Bush’s 2004 letter, though supremely irritating and disappointing to the Palestinians, nonetheless tracks with what most observers had expected the Road Map process to eventually lead to. True, the letter may appear to prejudge certain "final status arrangements." However, the points in the letter don’t appear to be inconsistent with Israel’s obligations under the Road Map.
But wait! There’s more! Here’s the kicker, from Kessler and Schneider:
In an interview with The Washington Post last year, Sharon aide Dov Weissglas said that in 2005, when Sharon was poised to remove settlers from Gaza, the Bush administration arrived at a secret agreement — not disclosed to the Palestinians — that Israel could add homes in settlements it expected to keep, as long as the construction was dictated by market demand, not subsidies.
Elliott Abrams, a former deputy national security adviser who negotiated the arrangement with Weissglas, confirmed the deal in an interview last week. "At the time of the Gaza withdrawal, there were lengthy discussions about how settlement activity might be constrained, and in fact it was constrained in the later part of the Sharon years and the Olmert years in accordance with the ideas that were discussed," he said. "There was something of an understanding realized on these questions, but it was never a written agreement."
Regev said Israeli and U.S. negotiators are discussing the degree to which the terms of the 2004 letter will apply under the new administration, but U.S. officials indicated that Obama wants to move beyond the 2004 letter and hold Israel to its commitments under the road map. "The bottom line is we expect all the parties in the region to honor their commitments, and for the Israelis, that means a stop to settlements, as the president said," a senior administration official said.
So let me get this straight. The WaPo has since 2008 been sitting on the knowledge of "something of an unwritten understanding" or "secret agreement" — which was not disclosed to the Palestinians — that exempted Israel from commonly understood expectations of Israel’s Road Map obligations.
Just curious. Was this agreement shared with the Quartet? With Middle East envoys like James Wolfensohn, who had the unenviable task of trying to get the Israelis to deal with the Gaza withdrawal about the same time Eliott was negotiating that "unwritten understanding"? Was it disclosed to other branches of the US government?It certainly wasn’t shared with with the US public, either by the Bush Administration or the WaPo, even though the issue of Israeli settlements has become the focus of increasing public disapproval of Israeli actions, and even though it has even been a factor in US electoral politics. Just how many folks were in on this little private understanding. Maybe Eliott shared that tidbit with his friends who hired him at the Council on Foreign Relations. Who knows!
Still, it seems that the previously undisclosed "understanding" is rapidly becoming NOL (no longer operative). The last statement quoted by Gessler and Schneider from a "senior administration official" doesn’t sound like much of a "discussion" is happening between US and Israeli officials. Let’s just review it one more time.
"The bottom line is we expect all the parties in the region to honor their commitments, and for the Israelis, that means a stop to settlements, as the president said".
That message is going to elicit howls of outrage and betrayal from Tel Aviv. One assumes that news of the "unwritten understanding" will also produce howls from Ramallah, though somewhat offset by Obama’s apparent seriousness to hold the Israelis to their commitments. But it appears that any Israeli howls aren’t going to be met with much sympathy from the Obama Administration, or even on Capitol Hill.
By the way, tell me again, who got suckered when Bibi met Obama?
Cross-posted at American Footprints. Twitter @nadezda04
UPDATE: My cynicism about the WaPo’s Middle East coverage is high, but I’m still astonished at how completely they’ve buried this story. This story not only isn’t on the home page. You have to scroll down six articles in the "More News" column on the "World" front to find it. And even on the "Middle East" front, two other articles are showcased, and this is only one of a number of headlines at the top of "More News". Maybe they’re hoping it stays buried until the Sunday shows are over.
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Our President can demand an end to settlement building ’til he is blue in the face, but then what is he going to do? What action? Withold some of the more than $3 billion we give to Israel every year?
I don’t think Rep. Wexler would support that.
Keep dreaming. Nothing will happpen. Obama will stamp his feet, but he wants to be elected again. Obama needs the financial support of the Haim Saban’s of the world.
This not a criticism of Obama. Just reality.
Obama could declare he’s not going to enforce the law that prohibits Israeli divestment. That wouldn’t carry any big political cost.
I think a bit of criticism of Obama is warranted.
congress has to rescind any treaties they are not a party to, they are not valid, not one bit
if obama bows to these “agreements” then he is a noe con making believe otherwise
I guess we shouldn’t be surprised, nadezhda
there is no “agreement” between a president and another nation that holds any weight, all treaties need to be ratified, if they are not they are a nothing
we do not, nor did have a king and if obama wants to give king powers to bush I will fight his re-election every step of the way1
Israel – Get Out of Palestine.
I have to admit that I am struck by the tone in the comments. President Bush four years ago entered into a secret agreement with Israel with no guidance from nor connsultation with Congress that was in direct conflict with his public pronouncements of being serious about peace in the Middle East and yet it seems everyone is focusing on President Obama. So far President Obama has shown that he is indeed serioous about a two state solution between Israel in Palestine and he has pressed Bibi Netanyahu on the settlement as have members of the leadership in Congress, something that hasn’t happened in the past. Now the day that changes then I would say have at it. But what about the fact that while we were fighting a war in Iraq that many in the Middle East felt was a war against Islam here was our President unilaterally giving concessions to Israel over land he had absolutely no right to grant them? Every time we think we know just how royally Bush screwed the pooch for 8 years, information like this comes out and shows us we are probably still just scratching the surface. Who in his Administration would recommend a letter like that? Was it Colin Powell? Condi Rice? Dick Cheney? What possible benefit would have ever come from such an arrangement? I think by now most of us realize that one of the major factors threatening our national security is continued unrest between Israel and Palestine and yet Bush effectively insured that not only would that unrest continue, it would probably get worse as the settlements keep expanding. Not only that he probably did more to undermine the more moderate Abbas leader and usher in Hamas just with that one “secret” agreement. Hell is it even legal for President Bush to enter into such an arrangement all on his own? That’s what the hell I want to know. Now lets be real here, Presidents of this country have a long history of allowing Israel more latitude than any other “ally” but what Bush did, in my opinion, was beyond the pale. He had Condi Rice going to promote the “Annapolis” agreements knowing full well he already had undermiined those agreements all on his own. And now any road to a true lasting 2 state solution is made even more complicated than before. Tell me why any Arab countries would trust the US to be an honest broker in these negotiations now after hearing about this secret agreement. Unbelievable.
What did Bush get in return?
What the sargeant said.
one step closer to ‘revelations’.
thinks he has a starring role in the bible.
“it is written”
Gee, I usually do not see Sunday tv…then, Karl Cruel and Liar Rove popped up….Yike
Although it is frequently maligned, Wikipedia has a MOST interesting piece on Ariel Sharon.
The info contained therein establishes a timeline of events,most significantly ,the 2003 Road Map to Peace initiatives.
According to the entry,after Sharon expelled Jews from Gaza,a Rabbi named Dayan placed a death curse on him.
After his resignation,Sharon suffered an embolism ,and STILL remains in a vegetative state after all these years,and faulty medical care is believed to have exacerbated his condition.
Bibi Netanyahu was a chief rival in Sharon’s political efforts for most of the years leading up to his incapacitation.
I would think tha the Palestinians can complain rightly about double dealing behind their backs.
Just to make it clear, I am not a sergeant nor am I in the military. I get it a lot but sgw are just my initials. I just don’t want there to be any confusion, especially on a blog that focuses primarily on national security issues.
It will take decades to clean up George W. Bush’s various foreign policy blunders.
What a disaster that guy was for our country and the world.
America’s hypocrisy is as great as Israel’s in all this. The two state solution died back in the 90s when Clinton let some Israeli prime minister named Netanyahu renege on the Oslo Agreement by “renegotiating” it out of existence. Then at the end of his term Clinton tried to push through a rushed settlement and when this didn’t work blamed the Palestinians.
During Bush’s Presidency, there was no daylight between Washington’s neocons and Israel’s far right. Sharon pursued a policy of apartheid. This was continued under Olmert who waged brutal campaigns against civilians in both Lebanon and Gaza. These were the essence of reprisals, a war crime, but were cheered on by the Bush Administration. Now we have Netanyahu again, an Israeli fascist, who himself rejects the two state solution because he embraces an even more extreme policy of apartheid than Sharon.
So what has Obama done? He’s made a few speeches. Can he force Netanyahu to change course? No, he would have to take on AIPAC first and he is not going to do that. Netanyahu will continue his version of apartheid. Israel will remain fascist. And there will be no peace.
Stephen Walt has a list of steps that do not require Congressional approval which Obama can take to promote a two-state solution, including:
* Change the rhetoric (e.g., describe the settlements as “illegal” or as “violations of international law”, rather than “unhelpful”);
* Support a U.N. Resolution condemning the occupation;
* Downgrade existing arrangements for “strategic cooperation”;
* Reduce U.S. purchases of Israeli military equipment;
* Get tough with private organizations that support settlement activity;
* Place more limits on U.S. loan guarantees; and
* Encourage other U.S. allies to use their influence.
First of all, in light of present revalations about the organization flow chart of the Cheney/Bush executive branch, this was, no doubt, not written by Bush (president) and perhaps even signed with a robo-signature devise. I have always wondered how any policies could be deemed authentic/enforcable/constitutional without a formal transfer of power dated about 1/21/2001.
I’m not a bit surprised by this WaPo piece. They were on a roll today. You should see the piece about Max Baucus and health care reform where they outright lie to the readers.
What treaty?
There’s no treaty involved. There is a framework that the Israelis didn’t want to use, Eliot gave them a go ahead to go outside the roadmap.
No treaty anywhere in sight.
Israel illegally occupies Palestinian land. It behaves as though it can continue to do so indefinitely.
If a two state solution fails, eventually demographics will cause either apartheid or the end of a Jewish Israel. Apartheid isn’t a real option, it will lead to continued intifada, constant war.
nadezhda, you won’t like this analysis (I sure don’t and am waiting for a response from Juan Cole on it) BUT Stratfor has a good reputation and is widely read.
Thanks for that link! I think George Stratfor has it right re what Bibi wants (at least an appearance of greater “freedom of action” for Israel) and what he’s going to get from the US. Obama in the press availability made it clear that rather than let Israel off its leash, he’s yanking the leash tighter. And that was confirmed in the Kessler/Schneider article on the settlements.
Unfortunately, Stratfor is also probably right that meaningful movement on a two-state solution is currently a pipedream. But I do think he underestimates the focus Obama is going to put on trying to redefine the dynamics of the “peace process”. Stratfor basically says the “peace process” is a sinkhole that Obama must avoid getting sucked into because he’s got too much else on his plate with Iraq, Afghanistan etc. And of course Iran. But Obama’s moves have so far indicated that he thinks managing the other stuff on his plate necessitates reorienting the Israel-Palestine problem.
In a number of policy areas, where we’ve reached stalemates or found ourselves going over and over the same rut, Obama’s modus vivendi seems to be to reframe the overall issue strategically. In foreign policy, he’s doing that by expanding the frame to regionalize it or add issue areas. And then, in the new frame, he looks to narrower, concrete issues on which some progress might be made and confidence can be built for going forward.
It’s his old “turning the aircraft carrier” metaphor. We’ve been steaming ahead in a direction that’s obviously unsustainable. In this case a broken Israel-Palestine process, a hapless handling of Iran, etc. First we have to turn the vessel around, then set a new course that’s aimed at the right goals and that is sustainable, and then start slowing moving in the new direction.
Whether he can accomplish that reorientation in the Greater Middle East-Central Asia arena certainly remains an open question. There are other players, both foreign and domestic, who will do their best to keep the battles locked into the old frame which suits them well. And as Stratfor points out, there will be the long, bloody burden of extracting ourselves from two wars, which will make progress more difficult for a number of reasons.
That’s my take on what Obama is trying to accomplish. So I think Stratfor is wrong about Obama ignoring the “peace process” other than with meaningless noises. But I do think Stratfor is right not to be optimistic that we’ll see anything tangible come from it for some time to come.
Smelling a rat — The Washington Post yet again doing AIPAC’s bidding eh!
——————
“…Media Tangled in Lobbyist Case
Press Freedoms Debated After Wiretapping of Call to Reporter
By Howard Kurtz, Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, November 12, 2005; A10
On July 21, 2004, two pro-Israel lobbyists called Washington Post reporter Glenn Kessler to pass on information that they said was from “an American intelligence source” — a source they declined to identify.
The two men assured Kessler that the mystery source was “100 percent credible” and had information about an Iranian plot to kill Americans and Israelis in Iraq…”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..49_pf.html
——————
h/t: dalybean @ Philip Weiss
http://www.philipweiss.org/mon…..ments.html
“…dalybean
The Washington Post article referencing an “unwritten agreement” and confirmed by Israel and Elliott Abrams is propaganda to support a basis for refusing to stop the growth in settlements and to make it look like Obama is breaking an agreement. Please note that Bush’s 2004 letter did NOT provide for growth in settlements, natural or otherwise. The article conflates Bush’s letter with this so-called unwritten agreement. More sleight of hand propaganda, to be sure.
The authors of the Washington Post article are AIPAC assets. Let’s remember that Glenn Kessler was right in the middle of the AIPAC spy case to leak the US government’s Iran documents to the press-he was present at the meeting between Rosen, Weissman, Franklin and the Israeli agent when the information was passed. That makes him one of AIPAC’s go to guys…”
From the Stratfor article:
“Like Israel, the United States understands that one of the major obstacles to any serious evolution toward a two-state solution is Arab hostility to such an outcome. … the other Arab states do not wish to see a radical altering of the status quo, which would likely come about with the rise of a Palestinian polity. … the Arab regimes [merely] pay lip service to the principle of Palestinian statehood.”
I can believe that Stratfor captures the unspoken agenda of Uncle Sam’s despotic Mid-east client regimes, but preserving the status quo clearly does not reflect the wishes or interests of their populations.
I suspect that this theme of oriental duplicity has re-surfaced recently, not in order to advance the interests of the Arab despots, who generally lack access to our media, but to re-inforce the rejectionism of the Likudnik/neo-cons.
“…You know you’re on shaky ground when Rep. Robert Wexler (D-Fla) tells you,…”
No, personally I think it means nothing. His ‘words’ mean nothing. Time and time again Wexler [and others within the House Foreign Affairs] have acted as ‘actionable’ shills for Israel on more than one occasion defending Israel’s position over what the US perceived intelligence may or may not have been. E.g In 2007:
As Chairman of the Subcommittee on ‘EUROPE’ when the US was keeping mum on the reason, or lack of reason on Israel’s pre-emptive attack on Syria he felt compelled to submit this:
“…Congressman Wexler Introduces Resolution Supporting Israeli Air Strike on Syria…”
http://wexler.house.gov/apps/l…..yria.shtml
The Forward was immensely happy, as too AIPAC I’m sure:
“…September 21, 2007, 2:38pm
Israel’s Attack on Syria: Wexler Tells All
Want to know what really happened between Israel and Syria on September 6?
Israeli officials won’t say a word, the US administration is silent and the press is full of rumors and speculations.
Luckily, Florida Democrat Robert Wexler has all the details out. He has even introduced a House resolution supporting the Israeli air strike…”
http://blogs.forward.com/campa…..ial/11668/
Wexler as well as the rest of the Israel-Firster crowd in the House Committee of Foreign Affairs whose “words” often sound grand mean nothing unless they’re obviously prepared to back them up with action. Making Israel admit it has nukes and then educate us to the regional dynamic that implies would be first step. Restricting Israel’s Foreign Aid with pre-conditions would be a second step.
————-
Also, has anyone got any ideas what this is about?
Laura Rozen: “…Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) has put a hold on the Senate vote for Jeffrey Feltman to become assistant secretary of State for near eastern affairs, Hill sources said. Feltman, a former U.S. ambassador to Lebanon who has been serving as the acting assistant secretary for NEA, is currently flying back from Lebanon on Air Force 2 with Vice President Joseph Biden. Levin’s office told The Cable that he had asked for a few more days to seek clarification on some matters before the Senate takes up the nomination…”
http://thecable.foreignpolicy&…..5/22/names
That sure sounds intriguing?
Forward Link
Wexler Resolution PR Link
RE: “And why am I not surprised to find the fingerprints of our dear old friend and pardoned Iran-Contra criminal, Eliott Abrams, on this one.”
MY COMMENT: Elliott Abrams = ‘evil incarnate’
RE: US pressure to freeze settlements “complicated” by Bush “secret agreement”
SEE: ”Biblical Prophesy and the Iraq War – Bush, God, Iraq and Gog” – By Clive Hamilton, 05/22/09
(EXCERPT) ”…In 2003 while lobbying leaders to put together the Coalition of the Willing, President Bush spoke to France’s President Jacques Chirac. Bush wove a story about how the Biblical creatures Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East and how they must be defeated…”
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.counterpunch.org/hamilton05222009.html
Feltman is another Dennis Ross so it’s hard to see how he would be any sort of honest broker in negotiations between Israel and Syria. I’m glad to see that it appears that Levin is representing his many Arab constituents in Michigan.
Wexler is another bad actor. He does these terrible things and then runs to the Huffington Post to blow his horn about what a great progressive he is every.single.time.
It is really about time to start making Israel/Palestine and obstruction of the two-state solution into election issues by tying the obstruction to the Iraq war vote and the probable vote on the coming war with Iran. Hopefully, starting with Jane Harman.
That’s probably why they all sign those AIPAC letters and vote for the resolutions. Strength in numbers.
Heh, indeed! It’s clear that lots of Dems, esp the Sen For Rels Comm types, don’t actually agree with the provisions they sign off on in “gesture” letters and resolutions. But everybody’s in on the CYA incumbency-protection game.
You’ve made my very point about Wexler — as you illustrate, he’s usually one of the most abject of abject apologists, big on Israel-can-do-no-wrong “solidarity with Israel” gestures. But this time he’s happy to be quoted telling Bibi that the settlement issue is becoming a make-or-break issue and that he’s a moral and political hypocrite.
Does that mean that Wexler is now suddenly going to start proposing a cut in aid to Israel or any other meaningful action that might make Israel think twice about continuing with settlement expansion? Of course not.
But politics is a gradual process that requires, as a minimum first step, that the terms of debate are shifted before policy changes can be made. Wexler’s public shift in framing Israel’s responsibilities is pretty revolutionary. And suggests that he’s sensing which way the wind is starting to blow with his Fla constituents and with Dems in DC.
Politics is two-faced… [eg. Wexler [House] the Obama guy vs. Cardin [Senate] the Bibi guy] and frankly I don’t think we have the time for a gradual process. And where has that gradual process got us — a West Bank that is littered with radical neo-Israeli imports blessed by the non-actions of people like Wexler et al.
“…Wexler’s public shift in framing Israel’s responsibilities is pretty revolutionary…”
Sorry, personally I think it pretty lame.
Of course it’s lame and is certainly not worthy of praise. It’s also a 180.
No argument that “we don’t have time for a gradual process”. We haven’t had time for “gradual” in years if not decades.
That doesn’t change the fact that “gradual” is going to be the best we’ll get. But if we don’t change the overall dynamics and direction, we’ll never see even “gradual”.
“caveats” in the Oslo accord, Camp David etc etc. The settlements have never stopped expanding and new ones have just sort of popped up consistently. Israel does not want peace they want to continue expansion while the spin goes on and on.
Good to hear Bibi was hearing it from Reps that normally fall in line. The shift is happening. Let’s keep pressuring our Reps.
Obama, with State Dept.help, can begin to cut back on the billions we give, a bit more at a time each year. The agreement with Mr. Mission Accomplished is meaningless.
“…is going to be the best we’ll get…”
I’m reading it differently is all — Wexler has provided nothing but meaningless talk… will the end result ’still’ be the ’status quo’? I realize you might be trying to provide a positive take on all this — and that maybe you are trying to show that Obama might have a chance with our Israel-centric occupied Congress — but I’m seeing absolutely no positive ‘over-all’ change, nor plan. It’s too late for piece-meal chatter and Congress and the Israeli’s know it.
Wexler when needed may provide the cover for this PR ‘one-step forward, but from his reliable track-record has always provided the necessary Israeli ‘Backup Crowd’ for the ‘two-steps back’ blockage approach e.g. Recent ploy:
“…Berman says Congress won’t deal with Hamas-Fatah. But will Obama?…”
Philip Wess Report – Link
This two-faced, good cop vs. bad cop crap is getting really old. We need action, maybe even some meaningful debate [e.g on Israel’s nukes], not just one Congressman’s meager words.
The state of Michigan should obviously tell Canada that MI has the ‘right’ to natural growth, and if residents’ kids want to build a house next door to their folks, well then Canada will just have to move their borders inward. Otherwise the US government will send bulldozers and knock down the homes that are in the way of the growth of Michigan.
You don’t need secret letters to see how insane this is. America must confront Zionism both here and in Israel.
The rest of the world is already referring to Israel as the Apartheid State of Israel. Tony Karon, who writes for Time and other publications, says that Israel is worse than South Africa ever was. Tony Karon ought to know since he is a Jew from Apartheid South Africa. http://www.thenational.ae/arti…..80252/1001
The media here is v. different than in Canada and Europe. And, John Stewart can only go so far.
Also, I think it’s interesting that Newt [the ‘has-been’] who was given center-stage at the AIPAC conference is now getting center-stage in our MSM e.g. today on MTP – again pushing for the resignation of Pelosi… I bet AIPAC would love that!~ Putting in Hoyer who would be an easy push-over for an attack on Iran.
Argh.
Actually, we haven’t had a real good cop vs bad cop routine in decades. Makes me nostalgic for Baker and Scowcroft. And under Bush43 it was totally bad cop/bad cop (or from Israel’s perspective, good cop/no cop).
I actually find the change somewhat refreshing. Is the change hypocritical? Yeah. But hypocritical in a half-way better sort of fashion. I celebrate the occasional glimmers of reality when ever they emerge in our political discourse, especially on the topic of Israel-Palestine.
I wish I had your optimism, I truly do — but I don’t.
Well, if more people start referring to Israel as an apartheid state, I would assume there would be serious discussion of the issue. I mean, at this point, you have to be talking about boycotts, divestment and sanctions. That’s how bad it is.
“…you have to be talking about boycotts, divestment and sanctions…”
Absolutely I agree… However, you start to even try and start a discussion on Israel being an apartheid state in some of the local grassroot political progressive groups. — There is ALWAYS, I repeat, always at least one person who is a pro-Israel enough and is AIPAC or synagogue programmed to respond to calls of Israel being an apartheid state, or in fact any criticism of Israel to be anti-Israel, anti-Democratic Party policy, as well as anti-Semitic — and then discussion usually comes to a grinding halt. — oh yeah and this one: “sounds like the Protocols of Zion”
There are still, unfortunately, many progressives — e.g. those who don’t get their info from the internet etc. that just don’t know enough about what is going on in Israel to to answer back.
Also, I’m still waiting for Peace Now to reply to my numerous emails on why they won’t consider “…talking about boycotts, divestment and sanctions…” pigs might fly.
There’s alot of duplicity out there even when you think people are on your side of human rights — what do they call it: PEI.
I know. One has to keep plugging away, however. I think urging a boycott may even be illegal. I just meant that those consequences naturally flowed from a determination that a state is practicing apartheid. And I think the issue of Israel’s apartheid practices belongs in any discussion of settlements, expansion and refusal to reach a two-state solution. Because once a person seriously thinks about it, they realize it’s true.