Query:

Why is white nationalism considered unremarkably mainstream in America, while black nationalism is a terribly frightening concept and any ethic or cultural identification movement is easily painted as unamerican?

Is it as simple as the difference between minority and majority ethnic identification, or does it reach deeper into the fears associated with loss of privilege as opposed to the struggle for equality?

It almost seems that hypocrisy and double – standards are hard-wired into the American psyche…

mikey

Why is white nationalism considered unremarkably mainstream in America, while black nationalism is a terribly frightening concept and any ethic or cultural identification movement is easily painted as unamerican?

You answered your own question. There wouldn’t be anxiety over black nationalism without implicit insecurity about the ubiquity of white privilege.

MSNBC: think about what it means to be promoting these views on television. Think hard. Think again and again and again.

They give JoeScar a platform too, don’t they? Look at CNBC(and your boy Dennis Kneale). Jeff Immlelt could put a stop to it if he wanted, but he doesn’t. So what does that tell you?

Free speech is important, but routinely featuring assholes on teevee demeans everyone. White people built this country – with slaves, but that part gets left out. Slaves didn’t count as whole people until much later in history, somewhat obv. Uncle Pat has yet to arrive at that moment of recognition.

Turn off the show you are watching anytime he appears – they’ll get the message eventually.

Do you think it was kosher for even the likes of Maddow to run a segment with him? Granted, she put him on to make him look like the grotesque that he is, but she has a fondness for him for being her MSNBC mentor in a way, and even if he’s on her air getting dismantled, he’s still on the air and being treated respectfully rather than as a loathsome goon who should be shunned. I really don’t know how to feel about it.

Please tell Rachel that America can’t stand Pat: rachel@msnbc.com

I think it was brave and subversive. MSNBC has Buchanan on in environments where he rarely gets challenged, or at least gets challenged too rarely. Maddow has him on for over ten minutes and goes after him firmly, respectfully and decisively. You don’t have to scream in someone’s face that he’s despicable in order to show that he’s despicable.

The ancestors of Frank Ricci owned no slaves and were in no position to opress anyone. Most likely, his family earned their wages by the hour, sweating their balls off and breaking their backs.

Yet Frank Ricci must pay for the sins of wealthy WASP men of yore. Why should Frank Ricci be punished for something that was not his creation?

Because he isn’t being punished and it’s a perfectly reasonable aim to have the upper ranks of a fire department reflect the diversity of its lower ranks. The military does the same thing; police departments do the same thing. New Haven only screwed up in that they did it in a way that can (very tenuously) be construed as illegal. It’s admirable and Frank Ricci should shut the fuck up and deal with it. I actually saw testimony about Ricci in the confirmation hearings blurbed as “Confirmation hearings discuss reverse discrimination case” on Headline News when I was getting lunch yesterday. The fact that that disgusting term is why we still need affirmative action; people who think that that concept is reasonable are in charge of things. The only reason people say “reverse discrimination” is to complain about discrimination against whites without having to preface it with, “I’m not a racist, but…” … also in this category: Sotomayor’s not racist, she’s racialist! When you have to invent nonsense words (cf enemy combatant, enhanced interrogation techniques) to make your rhetoric sound it better it probably means your argument would be obviously absurd with the right words.

Also, while Ricci’s ancestry is entirely irrelevant here, you’re extremely ignorant of the involvement of the Italian immigrant community in joining coalitions to support Jim Crow laws. White immigrant communities in America have historically been ironic supporters of discrimination and segregation. This isn’t universally true, obviously.

Maybe it’s not perfectly reasonable to have the upper ranks of a fire department reflect the diversity of the lower ranks. Maybe it’s a perfectly reasonable aim to have every member of the ranks of a fire department have the same chance to advance.

Okay, think thunk, hard and repeatedly.

Buchanan was pandering. As such, by definition, he had no point and the truth of what he said is not relevant.

But he had a point nonetheless, even if by accident. In his world, the things he said were (narrowly and approximately) true. His real point is that NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE. Never mind what particular thing might change. Let everything stay The Way It Was. If you wish to engage Pat Buchanan, engage him there. Mind, I’m not recommending that you do engage him; as I said, he is a panderer and you do not engage panderers, instead you look at their audiences, the way you look at an approaching weather pattern on the radar.

Yes that would also be reasonable unless the chance given is discriminatory a la Griggs V Duke Power. “No” isn’t much of an argument. If it wasn’t beneficial to diversify the upper ranks of hierarchical organizations, the military and police and fire departments across the country wouldn’t have it be such an important goal. Do you think the army’s affirmative action efforts are just there to try and be PC or something? They improve morale and improve effectiveness. What about police departments? Increasing police department diversity has gone a long way towards eliminating racial conflict between police and the communities they serve. Look at LA’s focus on latino recruitment in the last decade and DC’s increased black police force.

Saying Ricci is somehow paying for the sins of whites in the past is absurd. Who’s made an argument for affirmative action as a punitive measure? There’s good reason to practice affirmative action in many cases and good reason to stick to nondiscriminatory methods in others.

When I say same chance, I mean same chance. I truly understand the benefits of diversity, believe wholeheartedly in its desirability, and expect that allowing everyone that same chance will result in diversity at the top.
What i suggest is that not every means, toward the goal of diverse leadership, is justifiable in every circumstance.

First, you really don’t know what Ricci’s ancestors had or did or what benefits they had over blacks because a lot of times even poor whites got better deals on buying a house than whites. That’s if a black could even own a house. Secondly, Ricci himself is somewhat of an AA pick himself. He sued because the fire dept didn’t hire him under the ADA because he’s dyslexic. He settled for lawyers fees and a spot on the fire dept. Jeezus, white males had the upper hand for over 150yrs. You have a problem because minorities have a stupid little AA program for not even 40 yrs? You think these people get in based on whites getting scores of 99 and minorities getting scores of 20? Get f#$ing over it. And BTW what’s your solution to the inequality? You got any others? Probably not. AA isn’t perfect but at least you now see a few minorities in leadership positions.

”AA isn’t perfect but at least you now see a few minorities in leadership positions.”

Yes, minorities are in leadership positions. Off the top of my head, both the police and fire commissioners of Philadelphia are black. That’s great. Those jobs were usually held by ethnic Catholics, but where have elite wasps or jews been forced to cede their jobs for AA?

Where are the black CEO’s? Why does Keith Olbermann keep his job and not offer it up to Tavis Smiley? Maybe Spencer should step aside from his job for a bright recent grad from Howard!

My point is that these AA jobs are not coming at the expense of Anderson Cooper’s second cousin that just graduated from Cornell. That kid is set for life. Regular white people are being squeezed to make room for AA. And by regular white people, I don’t mean people with second homes who drive Prius’, I’m talking white people that bowl on Friday night that cling to their guns and religion. These people are not evil and should not pay for sins of Strom Thurman’s grandpap.

And Buchanan was correct that the smart political move would have been for McCain to have stained Obama with the turd that is Jeremiah Wright. If he did, he may well be president right now. Our country would be fucked, but at least he would have realized his dream.

Besides Joe the PLumber, McCain did not appeal to average white guys that I know. McCain told Ohioans and Michiganders the auto jobs were not coming back. McCain spoke of 100 years in Iraq, the glories of free trade, the soundness of our economy, and the greatness of open-borders immigration. Working white people anywhere know that McCain is not their friend, so they stayed home or voted for Barak Obama.

But these types can be motivated the next elections if they sense they are being fucked.

One other thing, Pat Buchanan was against the Iraq war while most progressives were still talking about WMD. Google his articles prior to the invasion, they now read like the man owned a crystal ball. The man is a genius.

The man is a genius.

Wow I can’t believe I got baited into responding to a troll. Such brilliance has also been displayed by Pat Buchanan in his single-issue race-baiting independent run for President in 2000.