John Cornyn said that we need the F-22 to fight our ally India, which is, you know, fucking crackers. According to Eric Kleefeld, he’s now clarified that to mean we need the plane in the event that we’d fight China. It’s kind of amazing that such a clarification is considered less insane.
There’s some kind of odd impulse among some in Washington — really, not just conservatives — to consider China a potential enemy. China, with its economic might and nuclear weapons and inferior-for-the-next-several-decades military. The constellation of forces surrounding the rise of China favor two possibilities: cooperation within a series of overlapping architectures of power; or conflicts around the global periphery of U.S. and Chinese interests. (Like over oil. China’s launching an Arabic-language state TV channel, a reflection of China’s expanded Middle Eastern presence.) Now, what will contribute to a negative-sum bellicose outcome? Stuff like cavalier statements from prominent U.S. officials that we need to keep a jettisoned plane just to fight the Chinese. How would the U.S. react to a similarly bellicose remark from a Chinese official?
Now, the Chinese are probably savvy enough to realize that Cornyn’s a buffoon, but the point still stands. U.S. policymakers are doing the world a disservice by blithely assuming that the Chinese are a looming enemy, rather than doing whatever they can to ensure that such a disastrous outcome never materializes. Would the British in the 1930s have been intelligent and farsighted to antagonize the U.S. in public?
By contrast, here’s how Tim Geithner and Hillary Rodham Clinton frame the basis for future Chinese cooperation:
Simply put, few global problems can be solved by the U.S. or China alone. And few can be solved without the U.S. and China together. The strength of the global economy, the health of the global environment, the stability of fragile states and the solution to nonproliferation challenges turn in large measure on cooperation between the U.S. and China.
I like that a whole lot. That’s a mature recognition that the U.S. and the Chinese are and can be the sources of beneficent global action. Togetherness and all that. Also see Mike Mullen’s "Thousand-Ship Navy" speech from a couple of years ago, the most farsighted statement of positive-sum liberal internationalism that no one ever paid any attention to outside of Naval circles.



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How do they know we won’t elect him President like we did with that other buffoon from Texas?
Trying very hard not to sound like a classic tinfoil hat loonie, but it IS true that in order to advance a particular ideological agenda it is extremely helpful, if not absolutely necessary to create at least the perception of a looming threat from a huge, implacable enemy. If you are a supporter of increased military spending, global dominance with hundreds of forward bases imposing an irresistible military hegemony over all regions considered significant, if you also are a supporter of a more authoritarian type of domestic governance with increased police and surveillance powers and more limited individual rights, an external enemy will allow you to advance this otherwise distasteful agenda.
“Islamic Terrorism” was never a large enough threat to serve effectively in this role long term. 9/11 made it possible to present international terror as a clear and present danger and allowed for a significant expansion of both military and authoritarian government agendas. But no one thinks that bin Laden et al will be useful as that deeply feared “existential threat” that will allow the post 2001 expansion to be not only sustained, but increased.
The options are limited. Iran and Venezuela are really too small, without the ability to actually threaten the United States – the chosen 21st century enemy will have to have global or at least intercontinental strategic reach. Russia, China, India, Europe or Australia are the potential enemies with the power and capability to be useful cast in this role…
mikey
Also, of course, Cornyn is not only of “a certain age” but a Republican; it is cliche that neither group easily changes its mind.
China will always be “Red China” in the minds of Cornyn and his ilk. I bet if you tried, you could get a really lively argument going with them about “who ‘lost’ China” in 1949.
Of course, the theory of needing a really scary enemy also applies.
China’s already won the war.
The US military would not last a month with no supplies from Asia.
What’s to win?
So we have this huge military strike and defeat China… the red menace is gone… then what?
the hell with ‘war’, all they have to do is call in the $1B a day in loans from the last 8 years
We need minimal levels of intelligence and awareness of the issues from our politicians. Like a drivers test you can’t run for office if you are unaware or if your a sociopath.
Your not a loon the thing is we can’t afford the loons who think like that anymore.
Wallmart can cut their rates even more as they will own their low cost suppliers!
I’m hoping they just buy Taiwan from us cash is cheaper than war for both sides. Plus allot of skilled immigrants would flee our way bringing manufacturing expertise we are losing.
Forget bankers going Gault I worry we won’t have enough Machinists, Welders, Engineers people who build stuff we need.
Meghan, McCain and her Dad can go Gault the Wallstreet bankers with their Ponzai schemes I want them gone.
But i need physical stuff. I need food. I need healthcare.
So, by confusing India with China and ostensibly threatening both, Cornyn offends a third of Earth’s population in one fell swoop. Gotta give him credit for efficiency. Makes Biden’s ill-advised blather about Russia look sort of amateurish.
Jeebus-we have a whackjob Governor and Senator here in Tejas. Sure could use a dose of Molly Ivins right now…
I’m so proud to live in Texas and be represented by this lunatic. Between him and Gov. Goodhair it is a pretty sad state of affairs.
Why, again, is it that Texas should be prevented from succession?
The F-22 is a protection against the resurgent Russians (they are on the rise again, in case anyone noticed), the Chinese, Indians or anyone else who has air defenses. Agreed, the F-35 will ultimately be a better strike force jet, but we should build as many F-22s as the arsenal can handle. The power to inject force at a moment’s notice is a natural.
I must admit that Republicans are at least efficient about their stupid belligerence.
I suppose you mean “secession”-and right now I’m finding that a hard question to answer. As for “succession”: we sure don’t need either one of these losers to follow anybody to anything-except early retirement.
Besides, Austin rules…
You can get healthcare–just not on my back and the back of my fellow Middle Class Americans…
FWIW, the F15, F16, and F/A-18 are all pretty much superior to anything the Russians have.
Plus the F17.
But please, do not let facts stand in the way of your fantasies and fear.
We’d better hurry up and get the Chinese to make our next generation of weapons before they catch on to the fact that we’ll be using them against the manufacturer. Don’t ‘cha think?
Amen! I miss Molly!
Are you kidding? We’re so going to war with China, it’s just inevitable.
[/wingnut]
Build all the new generation fighters you want and keep making the old ones too. If the Chinese could seriously mobilize, there’s no way to stop a military that size short of going to nukes.
The Chinese, as a state, aren’t our looming friends either. It is a state that understands our mutual interdependencies as much as the Saudis or Israelis, and has a much bigger stick to play with.
Instead of oil or emotional ties, it has a billion plus people and a manufacturing, technological and agricultural base, and something of an untapped domestic market, the rest of the world can’t seem to do without. A bit like America a hundred years ago, except for the part about needing immigrants.
Oh, and another couple of dozen or so excruciatingly expensive to build, operate and maintain air superiority fighters aren’t more than a fly swatter in the military scheme of things in a direct conflict with the Chinese. So the taxpayer expense Cornyn has been bought to advocate isn’t much good to anyone except those paid, like, him, to build, operate and maintain it. Eisenhower’s military-industrial-Congressional complex run amock, as usual.
Yes, i did mean “secession”. Really, english is my first language.
Crap.
No, it’s really troll waste.
Wise and efficient military spending is something we can all agree on. We just can’t agree on what’s wise or efficient or necessary, or agree on the most likely threats we face whose resolution might best be sought by using deadly force.
Wise and efficient military spending. I’ll vote for this as the best oxy-moron of the day!
Shorter Cornyn: We need the F-22 to kill brown people.
One of the moments of political theater last week was Dodd’s impassioned defense of the F-22 as a jobs program. Brought a tear to my eye, or at least it did when I stopped laughing.
At $350 million a copy how could we not want to buy oodles and oodles of F-22s?
Because there are some of us who don’t go along with the insane gov and senator.
I’d have moved back East long ago if I could afford to.
In my 25 years here I ‘ve noticed, every once in awhile Texans get nostalgic for the brief days of being a country, instead of a state, and mutter darkly about returning to that status. Then they get over it again for awhile.
I agree. Like Bush, Cornyn’s Freudian slurp was that it didn’t matter a lick who the enemy was as long as they were little, brown and spoke sumpin’ besides Texican.
I’m equally sure that none of Dodd’s corporate constituents – not really an electoral category, is it? – have any interest in the flow of taxpayer dollars a continued F-22 program would generate.
We’re looking better to the entire world for electing Obama.
Still, bottom line answer is: They don’t.
Prolly keeps em’ up at night too!
and WHEN and WHERE is the secession party again????????!
“How would the U.S. react to a similarly bellicose remark from a Chinese official?”
To be fair, China has buffoons like Cornyn too.. and occasionally they do shoot their mouth off, so they might blister about it for a sec or two but that’s probably about it. As many know here, I’m a student of the language and lived in Beijing for a number of years, so I do attempt to at least glance at the domestic press once a day.
Needless to say, Cornyn’s comments haven’t been picked up by the Chinese wires (yet), although I’m sure they’re having a good laugh about this in Delhi now. World affairs coverage in China seems to be focusing on the following stories this morning (their time), in order: the sino-Obama summit, which they seem very happy about, the North Korean mess, the climate-carbon targets debate, the Honduran mess (they’re very pro-ousted persident Zelaya and the media’s been following that story very closely – I think many in China think we/CIA overthrew him, basically), detente with Taiwan, hundreds dead in religious rioting in Nigeria (didn’t see that one in the US press), several interesting stories on Israel and the west bank, Sino-Iraqi relations, deadly violence in Pakistan, a diplomatic rift between Iran and Saudi Arabia, elections in Bulgaria, and some followup riff on international reactons to the Xinjiang riots earlier this month. In short, they seem to have more important things to worry about than some rethug shooting his mouth off.
actually, in absolute terms, their military (active plus reserves) is only about a quarter of a million personnel or so larger than ours (they’ve shrunk their’s a lot, even as we’ve increased the size of ours.. and they’re still shrinking their raw force strenth – also an all-volunteer army). Increasingly, their forces are being reconfigured to protect pipelines in Central Asia and the like – so steppe and desert warfare is a focus. Their navy and air force are ages away from threatening anybody, seriously, and largely for show in peacekeeping operations (they actually have quite a few of those going on all over Africa and the Caribbean).. and they don’t even seem seriously inclined to change that, despite increased military spending consummate with GDP. Their military budget is probably around $180 – $200 billion a year, on a dollars-to-dollars basis, including a good guess about the secret stuff they keep on trying to hide (officially its around $80 billion). So at that rate, they’re NEVER going to catch up with us, since ours is, what, $750 billion a year? As it is, from a strictly military perspective, they couldn’t take Taiwan (even without US assitance) or North Korea, even if they were inclined to invade, which they aren’t. They actually did discuss regime change on Pyongyong internally in 2007, according to leaked reports in the Asian media, and concluded that they’d lose (North Korea has a bigger army in raw numbers, as it turns out).
In field strength and main tanks an’ stuff, we’d be pretty evenly matched, and the US would dominate in force projection capacity (strategic bombers, carriers and the like). Of course, most of their nuclear arsenal is in tactical battlefield weapons (as opposed to strategic overkill missiles like ours), so you wouldn’t want to meet them on a real battlefield.
All this is a moot point of course – categorically, there is simply NO scenario in which we would ever fight China in an open, conventional war. The odd naval confrontation at sea, perhaps, but not more than that. Not over Taiwan, India or anyone else. It ain’t gonna happen.
i’d like one as yard art. /s
Well, I don’t ever write to my Senator, but I made an exception this one time:
“Dear Senator,
I don’t understand why you think it’s a good idea to make belligerent remarks about China. They’re holding our debt. We need to be cooperating with them, not threatening them. You are, of course, entitled to say whatever you please, but personally, I’d rather you left the foreign relations threat making to the State Department. The apology to India was in order. I’d appreciate seeing one to China as well. Please advise.
Sincerely,”
Well said Mike . Don’t forget we invaded a country that had sanctions for years while we and our island friend tested our new weapons on defenceless and starving people .
It’s not odd – it’s a direct outgrowth of realist theories on power. John Mearsheimer gives perhaps the most persuasive explanation of why conflict with China is inevitable (You can see an essay he wrote on it here. China will attempt to establish hegemony in its own region while making sure that the U.S. does not exercise its power within its geographic sphere of influence. This will inevitably lead to conflict – not necessarily military conflict, but that will almost certainly be part of the picture.
Much like Mearsheimer, I find this incredibly depressing. And much like Mearsheimer, I do not believe that any amount of goodwill will prevent that conflict. While I wish that we could end up cooperating within a series of overlapping architectures of power, the end result will be dictated by the anarchic reality of our international system.
Which is not to say that U.S. officials should be saying that we should use the F-22 on the Chinese (because if we do end up using a manned interceptor it will be the successor to the F-22). But it will not matter in the long run to the essential power dynamics of the situation with China. Such a disastrous outcome will come whether policymakers remark on it or not.
He may be talking nonsense but if so he is talking publicly nonsense which has become the accepted wisdom in D.C. The US has a public strategy of being able to take on 2 WARS simultaneously that is a 2nd Korean war and war with Iran or Russia at the same time.
They are talking about WAR as in against an established state and so in that case Iraq lasted 3 weeks and Afghanistan about 6 weeks, the subsequent occupation and and counter insurgency operations are operations short of War and either F-22 or pretty much the entire Navy and most of the air force are irrelevant.
Most of the strategy of the US Navy is built around planned operations against an equivelent peer competitor and at present the only one is China, every other Navy on the planet more than a glorified coast Guard is a fully signed up ally of the US, with pretty much the only exception being Russia which has a collection of increasingly old ships left over from pre 1990, the Defence Industry will put out threatening noises about Russia starting a build up, but they talk about a 30% or 300% increase in ship building but forget to mention the increase is from zero! Russia can put to sea a small Carrier and a batch of escorts for it once every 2 years and that is about it.
Do the American people realise that a very large part of their Defence budget has one purpose and one purpose only to defend Taiwan!