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	<title>Comments on: Vietnam Is Back</title>
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	<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/</link>
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		<title>By: ondelette</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11964</link>
		<dc:creator>ondelette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11964</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How much of this is due to two factors? First, the floodgates on information and attention got opened with the change of administration, and the military is flopping around trying to figure out how to deal with all the complexities they didn’t know about or couldn’t talk about before. Second, the one mentality that hasn’t changed in the whole affair is the failure to discuss the fact that our military doesn’t competently do the things that need to be done. The agencies that did, like USAID, were largely dismantled during the last administration because they hated them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;McChrystal is the head of the ISAF/NATO operation. That operation’s goals are nation building, it’s in their documentation taking them into Afghanistan. They never were there to fight terrorism, that was Operation Enduring Freedom, whose quarry hasn’t been in Afghanistan for years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And the U.S. is virtually the only country in the ISAF that never went to it’s legislature or parliament and obtained overt permission to be part of the nation building mission.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much of this is due to two factors? First, the floodgates on information and attention got opened with the change of administration, and the military is flopping around trying to figure out how to deal with all the complexities they didn’t know about or couldn’t talk about before. Second, the one mentality that hasn’t changed in the whole affair is the failure to discuss the fact that our military doesn’t competently do the things that need to be done. The agencies that did, like USAID, were largely dismantled during the last administration because they hated them.</p>
<p>McChrystal is the head of the ISAF/NATO operation. That operation’s goals are nation building, it’s in their documentation taking them into Afghanistan. They never were there to fight terrorism, that was Operation Enduring Freedom, whose quarry hasn’t been in Afghanistan for years.</p>
<p>And the U.S. is virtually the only country in the ISAF that never went to it’s legislature or parliament and obtained overt permission to be part of the nation building mission.</p>
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		<title>By: TarheelDem</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11963</link>
		<dc:creator>TarheelDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11963</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Where does using economic development and education and healthcare change from being a counterinsurgency strategy to obtain a counter-terrorism objective to a counterinsurgency strategy to obtain a nation-building objective?  I think that is where you start having mission creep–trying to clear insurgents and provide enough security to permit non-military aid to begin.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, there is a fundamental mismatch between strategy, doctrine, and training in the US military.  This is demonstrated in the military’s inability to grasp the fact killing civilians are major setbacks.  The troops actually doing the job do not (or maybe it’s just impossible to do that contradictory a training objective) see the world in anything other than everyone foreign is an enemy.  And as occupiers, positively everyone is foreign.  They’ve not been trained in the language; they don’t understand the culture.  Once again, it seems that the whole idea of counterinsurgency warfare using the military is invalid and the source of major tragedy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;McChrystal’s “success” in Iraq should have not been the reason to put him in Afghanistan; there is too much temptation for him to be fighting the last war (Iraq) in Afghanistan, in which the terrain helps and impedes military action in a different way from that in Iraq.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Finally, the commander-in-chief needs to see the mission creep going on and refocus the effort on counter-terrorism.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It really was a law enforcement issue from the beginning.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where does using economic development and education and healthcare change from being a counterinsurgency strategy to obtain a counter-terrorism objective to a counterinsurgency strategy to obtain a nation-building objective?  I think that is where you start having mission creep–trying to clear insurgents and provide enough security to permit non-military aid to begin.</p>
<p>Also, there is a fundamental mismatch between strategy, doctrine, and training in the US military.  This is demonstrated in the military’s inability to grasp the fact killing civilians are major setbacks.  The troops actually doing the job do not (or maybe it’s just impossible to do that contradictory a training objective) see the world in anything other than everyone foreign is an enemy.  And as occupiers, positively everyone is foreign.  They’ve not been trained in the language; they don’t understand the culture.  Once again, it seems that the whole idea of counterinsurgency warfare using the military is invalid and the source of major tragedy.</p>
<p>McChrystal’s “success” in Iraq should have not been the reason to put him in Afghanistan; there is too much temptation for him to be fighting the last war (Iraq) in Afghanistan, in which the terrain helps and impedes military action in a different way from that in Iraq.</p>
<p>Finally, the commander-in-chief needs to see the mission creep going on and refocus the effort on counter-terrorism.</p>
<p>It really was a law enforcement issue from the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11960</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 05:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11960</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The reason(s) we’re there are immaterial, tactically, to the generals in the Pentagon or on the ground. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think this is right.  We saw much the same in Iraq.  Generals and battle plans are being substituted for policy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The reason(s) we’re there are immaterial, tactically, to the generals in the Pentagon or on the ground. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think this is right.  We saw much the same in Iraq.  Generals and battle plans are being substituted for policy.</p>
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		<title>By: researcher</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11959</link>
		<dc:creator>researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 05:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11959</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have been stating since this “war” started that this will be another vietnam.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we are not losing the soldiers we did in nam nor is their a draft and the chinese are paying for the war so americans care little about this war.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;as long as the gas prices are low, and tv is available, and wal mart is open, and video games for the kids are updated, and the drugs keep flowing americans will not raise much of a peep.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it does not affect us at home. yet.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;americans are imperialist in their hearts. now they dont know they are imperialists but look around the world everyone else knows we are but wont say it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;they want to sell us their stuff or want our money. ok our chinese money.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we have 700 military bases around the world if that alone is not the definition of imperialism what is.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we spend more on our industrial military complex than the rest of the industrialized world. they even control the major universities with their grants.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;americans actually think these wars have something to do with their freedoms.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;give credit where credit is due the industrial military complex and the capitalists are genius at controlling congress and the mass media.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the republic is failing fast but there is  always hope. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been stating since this “war” started that this will be another vietnam.</p>
<p>we are not losing the soldiers we did in nam nor is their a draft and the chinese are paying for the war so americans care little about this war.</p>
<p>as long as the gas prices are low, and tv is available, and wal mart is open, and video games for the kids are updated, and the drugs keep flowing americans will not raise much of a peep.</p>
<p>it does not affect us at home. yet.</p>
<p>americans are imperialist in their hearts. now they dont know they are imperialists but look around the world everyone else knows we are but wont say it.</p>
<p>they want to sell us their stuff or want our money. ok our chinese money.</p>
<p>we have 700 military bases around the world if that alone is not the definition of imperialism what is.</p>
<p>we spend more on our industrial military complex than the rest of the industrialized world. they even control the major universities with their grants.</p>
<p>americans actually think these wars have something to do with their freedoms.</p>
<p>give credit where credit is due the industrial military complex and the capitalists are genius at controlling congress and the mass media.</p>
<p>the republic is failing fast but there is  always hope. </p>
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		<title>By: Larue</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11958</link>
		<dc:creator>Larue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11958</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Namaste, SD, and thanks for your words.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Namaste, SD, and thanks for your words.</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11957</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11957</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m not sure where exactly the separation occurs, or rather where the two worlds merge.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not sure where exactly the separation occurs, or rather where the two worlds merge.</p>
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		<title>By: Larue</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11956</link>
		<dc:creator>Larue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11956</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Now THAT’S testy! Nice rant SB, I’m with ya all the way . . . &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now THAT’S testy! Nice rant SB, I’m with ya all the way . . . </p>
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		<title>By: Synoia</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11955</link>
		<dc:creator>Synoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11955</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m sorry but the US military cannot be the first conventional army to defeat an insurgency.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kitchener with the British Army did it in 1900/1901 against the Boers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The British did it again in the Malaya Emergency in the 50’s/60s.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And if Kitchener with his realpolitik handn’t interfered in South Africa in ‘74 to prevent South Africa supporting the Rhodies, the Rohdesians would have flattened Mugabe.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m sorry but the US military cannot be the first conventional army to defeat an insurgency.</p>
<p>Kitchener with the British Army did it in 1900/1901 against the Boers.</p>
<p>The British did it again in the Malaya Emergency in the 50’s/60s.</p>
<p>And if Kitchener with his realpolitik handn’t interfered in South Africa in ‘74 to prevent South Africa supporting the Rhodies, the Rohdesians would have flattened Mugabe.</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11954</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11954</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Time to leap into my tree.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Namaste&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time to leap into my tree.</p>
<p>Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.</p>
<p>Namaste</p>
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		<title>By: Larue</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11953</link>
		<dc:creator>Larue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/vietnam-is-back/#comment-11953</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, that part I get . . . . that’s the part each and every individual soldier has a total cachet in. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Pride, and then, survival . . . . war is hell. We just shouldn’t need it any more . . . not with OUR nukes. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But business demands we send young men and women into places they know nothing about culturally, or politically. And we ask them to kill or be killed . . . . for the flag. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Same as it ever was . . . . only, it just shouldn’t BE anymore. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As a species, we’ve PROVEN war is outmoded . . . alas, the rich and few command the military. And the poor here, and there where ever we intervene, die. A lot. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sigh.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that part I get . . . . that’s the part each and every individual soldier has a total cachet in. </p>
<p>Pride, and then, survival . . . . war is hell. We just shouldn’t need it any more . . . not with OUR nukes. </p>
<p>But business demands we send young men and women into places they know nothing about culturally, or politically. And we ask them to kill or be killed . . . . for the flag. </p>
<p>Same as it ever was . . . . only, it just shouldn’t BE anymore. </p>
<p>As a species, we’ve PROVEN war is outmoded . . . alas, the rich and few command the military. And the poor here, and there where ever we intervene, die. A lot. </p>
<p>Sigh.</p>
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