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	<title>Comments on: Progressives, Conservatives And Counterinsurgents</title>
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	<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/</link>
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		<title>By: macaquerman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12609</link>
		<dc:creator>macaquerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12609</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;At one time, we were all somewhere else. AQ and the Taliban have been in Pakistan at least 6 years and have been been actively undermining the Pakistani government.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At one time, we were all somewhere else. AQ and the Taliban have been in Pakistan at least 6 years and have been been actively undermining the Pakistani government.</p>
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		<title>By: WilliamOckham</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12606</link>
		<dc:creator>WilliamOckham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12606</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m going to challenge this statement:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;But no counterinsurgent I’ve ever met has ever argued that just because violence is &lt;em&gt;insufficient&lt;/em&gt; in counterinsurgency that it’s &lt;em&gt;unnecessary&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I would argue that exact point. I belong to the rather small community of pacifist counterinsurgents. It might even be a community of one. I believe that the proper conclusion to draw from the work of Col. John Boyd (if there is a patron saint of counterinsurgency, he is it) is that modern warfare is a fool’s game. We can expand the scope of the WOPR (”Joshua”) doctrine to include all war: the only winning move is not to play.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m going to challenge this statement:</p>
<blockquote><p>But no counterinsurgent I’ve ever met has ever argued that just because violence is <em>insufficient</em> in counterinsurgency that it’s <em>unnecessary</em>.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I would argue that exact point. I belong to the rather small community of pacifist counterinsurgents. It might even be a community of one. I believe that the proper conclusion to draw from the work of Col. John Boyd (if there is a patron saint of counterinsurgency, he is it) is that modern warfare is a fool’s game. We can expand the scope of the WOPR (”Joshua”) doctrine to include all war: the only winning move is not to play.</p>
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		<title>By: nrafter530</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12604</link>
		<dc:creator>nrafter530</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12604</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, because the difference was the Taliban and Al-Qaeda were in Afghanistan and not in Pakistan at the time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They’re in Pakistan now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, because the difference was the Taliban and Al-Qaeda were in Afghanistan and not in Pakistan at the time.</p>
<p>They’re in Pakistan now.</p>
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		<title>By: nrafter530</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12603</link>
		<dc:creator>nrafter530</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12603</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A major argument is that the war spilled into Cambodia because we left and didn’t keep it from happening…which would work in favor of staying in Afghanistan.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A major argument is that the war spilled into Cambodia because we left and didn’t keep it from happening…which would work in favor of staying in Afghanistan.</p>
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		<title>By: kindGSL</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12602</link>
		<dc:creator>kindGSL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12602</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why we are in Afghanistan?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;See if this helps explain it. Try listening to the Jeff Sharlet interview with Alex Jones,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=2678&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=2678&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why we are in Afghanistan?</p>
<p>See if this helps explain it. Try listening to the Jeff Sharlet interview with Alex Jones,</p>
<p><a href="http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=2678" rel="nofollow">http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=2678</a></p>
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		<title>By: human</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12601</link>
		<dc:creator>human</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12601</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Remind me again why we are in Afghanistan?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This progressive is of the conviction that the war is illegal. There is only one course of action and it does not involve weapons of any kind other than words on legal forms and those that may be of use by personnel rounding up recalcitrant perps.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remind me again why we are in Afghanistan?</p>
<p>This progressive is of the conviction that the war is illegal. There is only one course of action and it does not involve weapons of any kind other than words on legal forms and those that may be of use by personnel rounding up recalcitrant perps.</p>
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		<title>By: Endymion</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12600</link>
		<dc:creator>Endymion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12600</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Non-kinetic counterinsurgency is where the invading troops greet the populace with chocolates and flowers.  West is perhaps referring to a strategy of purely bribing and building Afghanistan into an ally?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Non-kinetic counterinsurgency is where the invading troops greet the populace with chocolates and flowers.  West is perhaps referring to a strategy of purely bribing and building Afghanistan into an ally?</p>
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		<title>By: macaquerman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12599</link>
		<dc:creator>macaquerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12599</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I kind of think that the fall of Pakistan’s government was a whole lot more likely when they were supporting the Taliban and happily hosting Al Qaeda than it is at present or is likely to be in the near future.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kind of think that the fall of Pakistan’s government was a whole lot more likely when they were supporting the Taliban and happily hosting Al Qaeda than it is at present or is likely to be in the near future.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard729</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12598</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard729</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12598</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A few weeks ago I saw a picture in the paper taken at an Army training camp where soldiers plan to use horses in Afghanistan fighting. Funny, I wrote a satire on that years ago where the Afghan military were riding horses back in 2002 in support of the U.S. war against the Taliban and al Qaeda. Instead of air-dropping supplies and Meals Ready to Eat (MREs) I thought it appropriate to bring in OREs (Oats ready to eat) for the horse brigade. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is this war winnable? As we see some of the video coverage on the Afghan war I wonder if there ever was an actual end strategy. NATO troops have been less willing to continue this madness because they thought once the Taliban were brought to rein, their mission would be road-building, school and hospital construction and other humanitarian projects that would help the Afghan people get back to some sort of self-sufficiency. Those prospects have all but evaporated. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Once G. W. Bush abandoned Afghanistan and his hunt for Osama bin Laden in order to bomb, invade and occupy Iraq, his “cakewalk” war, conditions in Afghanistan continued to deteriorate and the Taliban warlords are back in business as never before. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In Afghan Fields the poppies blow&lt;br /&gt;
Between the crosses row on row,&lt;br /&gt;
That mark our place; and in the sky&lt;br /&gt;
The larks, still bravely singing, fly&lt;br /&gt;
Scarce heard amid the guns below. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is there something more noble about this war that I’ve missed? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First we can’t burn the poppy fields because the opium crops keep the farmers from starving and the Afghan people will side with the Taliban if we take away their living means. Then, we discover the opium profits are being used by the Taliban and al Qaeda to train in the madrassas of Karachi and Islamabad, Pakistan so the recruits can learn how to kill Americans and other westerners. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, now the word is we are destroying the poppy fields again. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the meantime, toady generals like McKiernan who was replaced by General McCrystal still haven’t figured out how to stop the increasingly sophisticated roadside bomb attacks which were developed and tested in Bush’s personal war of choice in Iraq. The much-touted General Stanely McCrystal, if anyone recalls, was instrumental in covering up the disastrous investigation into former pro football player Pat Tillman’s  death as a result of friendly fire. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let’s also not forget the other high tech operation in Afghanistan, you know, the one where we win the hearts and minds of the Afghan villagers when we send in unmanned Predator drone aircraft to fire “precision” missiles directed (”flown”)from an airbase in Las Vegas, Nevada that wipe out dozens of civilians. But hey, we got a couple of bad guys — I think!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, here we are over 7 years later, pouring thousands of more troops into Afghanistan while approximately 130,000 U. S. troops languish in Iraq and remain totally under the thumb of the Shiite Islamic government of Nouri al-Maliki who now restricts where and when U.S. combat troops can and cannot go — thanks to Bush’s Status of Forces Agreement that had no input or advisory role for the U.S. Congress. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hey, you wanna know how come we’re still not rounding up those bad guys during the “fog of war” and sending them off to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba? That’s so 2002! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wonder how much health care these two $10 billion per month Bush-Cheney adventures would buy for millions of Americans? Silly me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few weeks ago I saw a picture in the paper taken at an Army training camp where soldiers plan to use horses in Afghanistan fighting. Funny, I wrote a satire on that years ago where the Afghan military were riding horses back in 2002 in support of the U.S. war against the Taliban and al Qaeda. Instead of air-dropping supplies and Meals Ready to Eat (MREs) I thought it appropriate to bring in OREs (Oats ready to eat) for the horse brigade. </p>
<p>Is this war winnable? As we see some of the video coverage on the Afghan war I wonder if there ever was an actual end strategy. NATO troops have been less willing to continue this madness because they thought once the Taliban were brought to rein, their mission would be road-building, school and hospital construction and other humanitarian projects that would help the Afghan people get back to some sort of self-sufficiency. Those prospects have all but evaporated. </p>
<p>Once G. W. Bush abandoned Afghanistan and his hunt for Osama bin Laden in order to bomb, invade and occupy Iraq, his “cakewalk” war, conditions in Afghanistan continued to deteriorate and the Taliban warlords are back in business as never before. </p>
<p>In Afghan Fields the poppies blow<br />
Between the crosses row on row,<br />
That mark our place; and in the sky<br />
The larks, still bravely singing, fly<br />
Scarce heard amid the guns below. </p>
<p>Is there something more noble about this war that I’ve missed? </p>
<p>First we can’t burn the poppy fields because the opium crops keep the farmers from starving and the Afghan people will side with the Taliban if we take away their living means. Then, we discover the opium profits are being used by the Taliban and al Qaeda to train in the madrassas of Karachi and Islamabad, Pakistan so the recruits can learn how to kill Americans and other westerners. </p>
<p>So, now the word is we are destroying the poppy fields again. </p>
<p>In the meantime, toady generals like McKiernan who was replaced by General McCrystal still haven’t figured out how to stop the increasingly sophisticated roadside bomb attacks which were developed and tested in Bush’s personal war of choice in Iraq. The much-touted General Stanely McCrystal, if anyone recalls, was instrumental in covering up the disastrous investigation into former pro football player Pat Tillman’s  death as a result of friendly fire. </p>
<p>Let’s also not forget the other high tech operation in Afghanistan, you know, the one where we win the hearts and minds of the Afghan villagers when we send in unmanned Predator drone aircraft to fire “precision” missiles directed (”flown”)from an airbase in Las Vegas, Nevada that wipe out dozens of civilians. But hey, we got a couple of bad guys — I think!</p>
<p>So, here we are over 7 years later, pouring thousands of more troops into Afghanistan while approximately 130,000 U. S. troops languish in Iraq and remain totally under the thumb of the Shiite Islamic government of Nouri al-Maliki who now restricts where and when U.S. combat troops can and cannot go — thanks to Bush’s Status of Forces Agreement that had no input or advisory role for the U.S. Congress. </p>
<p>Hey, you wanna know how come we’re still not rounding up those bad guys during the “fog of war” and sending them off to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba? That’s so 2002! </p>
<p>I wonder how much health care these two $10 billion per month Bush-Cheney adventures would buy for millions of Americans? Silly me.</p>
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		<title>By: capemh</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12597</link>
		<dc:creator>capemh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/progressives-conservatives-and-counterinsurgents/#comment-12597</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;…and which team has won the World Series this millennium??&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>…and which team has won the World Series this millennium??</p>
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