Any mention of Israel’s possession of nuclear weapons and the threat that poses to world peace? We all know how circumspect the Israeli Defense Forces are in using force.

No excuses for Iran’s doing this in secret. They are required by the NPT to report any new developments. Under the NPT they have the right to enrich uranium for peaceful means.

Iran should allow inspections yesterday.

Granted Israel set the stage in the middle east for the nuclear arms race, did it in secret, will not sign on to the NPT, and sits on a massive stockpile of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons that go uninspected.

Israel should sign the NPT decades ago. But now will work

The last President to challenge Israel’s nuclear capability was President Kennedy. He also wanted the American Zionist Council (Aipac’s earlier form) to sign under the Foreign Agents Registration Act

Imagine that!

Get ready… The reich-wing is going to be humping this story like a horny sensory-deprived dog on viagra.

NPT requires disclosure 6 months prior to adding nuclear materials – this was a facility under construction per AP etc not an active site so they are likely not in violation – and at 3,000 centrifuges, not exactly a bomb making machine.

The usual hype will cloud the issue of course

thanks

We have hundreds of bases all over the world, enough nukes to blow up the earth several times over, but somehow Iran (which would have been a democracy had we not screwed it in a 1953 coup), is always the problem.

Hypocritical whiney ass titty babies: thy name is USA! USA! USA!

And while they’re in the neighborhood maybe they could drop by Israel to check up on the same facilities?

I am not so sure it is strictly required to report this under NPT. No uranium was introduced to the facility. (The same issue came up with respect to the Syrian reactor.)

That said, building this is (a) obviously credibility-destroying for Iran and (b) just dumb. You can build a rapid-breakout capability right out in the open.

shhhh … there are no Israel nuclear facilities silly

/s

So, the script is being followed as written.

Thank you Siun and Professor.

I believe that Israel needs to host inspections, also.

the timing of this is interesting

Thank you!

more from NYT – http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09…..=1&hp

American officials said that they had been tracking the covert project for years, but that Mr. Obama decided to disclose the American findings after Iran discovered, in recent weeks, that Western intelligence agencies had breached the secrecy surrounding the complex. On Monday, Iran wrote a brief, cryptic letter to the International Atomic Energy Agency, saying that it now had a “pilot plant” under construction, whose existence it had never before revealed.

In a statement from its headquarters in Vienna on Friday, the atomic agency confirmed that it had been told on Monday by Iran that “a new pilot fuel enrichment plant is under construction in the country.” The agency said it had requested more information about the plant and access to it as soon as possible. “The agency also understands from Iran that no nuclear material has been introduced into the facility,” the statement said.

On Friday, ISNA, an Iranian news agency, quoted an “informed source” as confirming the existence of the second uranium-enrichment site, describing it as similar to Iran’s known enrichment facility at Natanz…

The newly discovered enrichment plant is not yet in operation, American officials said, but could be by next year.

yes, thank you Siun and Professor Foland

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/i…..halom.html

[Access article in PDF]
Kennedy, Ben-Gurion and the Dimona Project, 1962-1963

DURING THE COURSE OF 1962-1963, a significant shift took place in the attitude of the Western powers, particularly the United States, toward Israel’s nuclear development. Until then, American policy was characterized by moderation and a low profile. 1 Change began several months after Ben-Gurion’s visit to the United States and his meeting with President Kennedy in May, 1961. Thereafter, the American government exerted increasingly intense and unrelenting pressure to allow ongoing supervision of the nuclear reactor in Dimona. This change in American policy was precipitated by four developments.

First, President Kennedy focused on Israel’s nuclear program only after his prestige and popularity had been secured. The discovery of Israel’s nuclear activity during December 1960 and January 1961 took place during a “twilight hour” in American foreign policy, when the Eisenhower administration was concluding its term of office and Kennedy administration was organizing to take control. His new administration was unprepared to attend to such a sensitive and complex issue, despite the fact that nuclear non-proliferation had been presented as one of supreme importance during his election campaign. After the Kennedy administration had gained experience and prestige in the international arena, particularly its impressive success in handling the Cuban missile crisis (October 1962), it turned to deal intensively with Israel’s nuclear activity.

Second, David Ben-Gurion’s personal status eroded even as Kennedy’s was enhanced. Both the “Lavon Affair” and the handling of the controversy over German scientists involved with Egyptian weapons development diminished Ben-Gurion’s ability to govern and the level of his authority. An indication of this decline in power and authority was that the struggle for [End Page 3] succession began in earnest. 2 Ben-Gurion’s apparent decline led the American government to expect that it could force Israel to be more susceptible to pressure.

Third, the strength of the ties between Israel and France in defense matters diminished following the rise of the De Gaulle regime and the granting of independence to Algeria. 3 This, in turn, resulted in an increase in Israel’s dependence upon the United States, thereby providing the Kennedy administration with the expectation of greater leverage over Israel. 4

Fourth, Ben-Gurion was concerned about an unfavorable shift of power in the region as a result of movements toward unification among Arab states, 5 as well as the armament programs of Egypt and Syria. 6 These led him to explore the possibility of obtaining guarantees from the American and even Soviet governments. 7 There seems no doubt that these attempts led the Kennedy administration to conclude that, in exchange for some sort of “guarantees” to Israel, it would be possible to demand that Israel significantly restrict, and possibly even shut down, its nuclear project in Dimona. At a minimum, it was expected that Israel would agree to accept ongoing American supervision.

Finally, by 1962-1963 the Kennedy administration felt an urgency about Israel’s nuclear development. 8 The United States became convinced that it needed to impose its will on Israel before the Israeli nuclear program at Dimona produced irreversible results.

The newly discovered enrichment plant is not yet in operation, American officials said, but could be by next year.

*Cue Gustav Holst’s “Mars, Bringer of War”*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NeQ1h6lzLI

No statement up at the IAEA website yet
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter…..eting.html

IAEA Chief Addresses Historic UN Security Council Meeting
UN resolution calling for nuclear disarmament approved at meeting
Staff Report
24 September 2009
—————————————————–

This is disturbing on a number of levels, but I have to admit I feel much better about it happening during the Obama administration than if it had happened under Bush, or a possible McCain administration.

There are any number of legitimate concerns about Iran’s intentions, but I’m sure we won’t hear any of those — prepare to be bombarded in the MSM by all kinds of ridiculous conspiracy theories and illegitimate concerns.

This is all just posturing by the Iranians they are fearful of strikes by Israel.
Pretend you have the capability to strike back and no body will try to hit you
Amadinnerjacket would have to be completely insane to launch a strike against Israel
Iran would end up be blown completely off the map

Operation Opera II

Saddam tried that strategy and we see what happened.

what do they call this “encirclement”

If I lived in Iran and I was watching what the U.S./Israel/ have done over the last several decades I would want nuclear weapons. But there is no proof or “hard evidence” of any such thing

Obama “Iran must comply with U.N. security council resolutions… We have offered Iran a clear path to greater international [cooperation]… or be held accountable to international standards and international law.”

the rest of the world must choke when Obama refers to INternational standards and International law”

What an absurd statement

The U.s. and Israel are some of the most serious serial abusers of International standards and laws.

Can not understand why Iran does not “flip the script” the way Israel always does when the fingers are pointing at them. Just can not understand why Iran does not keep pointing at Israel’s undeclared and inspected stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and how these pose a constant threat in the middle east.

How they feel this is a persistent threat to peace in the middle east. Because it is.

I’m not sure that’s right. This is Article III, Section 4 of the NPT, the only portion of the document that references time frames:

4. Non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty shall conclude agreements with the International Atomic Energy Agency to meet the requirements of this Article either individually or together with other States in accordance with the Statute of the International Atomic Energy Agency. Negotiation of such agreements shall commence within 180 days from the original entry into force of this Treaty. For States depositing their instruments of ratification or accession after the 180-day period, negotiation of such agreements shall commence not later than the date of such deposit. Such agreements shall enter into force not later than eighteen months after the date of initiation of negotiations.

I confess to not being totally sure what the “date of deposit” means here, but the 180-day period in question seems to be a reference to when a nation ratifies the treaty, not to adding nuclear material to any particular facility. Your point about precision in determining what exactly it is Iran has/hasn’t violated is still a good one.

the comments at Huffington Post having to do with this turn of events is fascinating. Sure has opened up over there during the last several years

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

Also, Siun, I’ll have a post going up shortly that addresses your specific concern and clarifies the six-month point. Thanks for raising it so I could do more reporting on it.

The neocons are jonsin to attack Iran one of the axis of evil rogue states.

Of course any sovereign nation which feels that the mighty USA is gunning for its destruction would be crazy not to find a way to protect itself from preemptive attack – the declared defense policy of the USA.

The USA, France and Britain need to stop acting like bullies in this as NONE of them are threatened by Iran defending herself. Let the nations of the region sort out their own issues without interference from outsiders.

I am sure that the world is not thrilled about our weaponized anthrax stockpiles..

The North Korea example is instructive. Both we and they negotiated in bad faith. It was a given. But the negotiation process with all of its ups and downs kept the North Koreans from developing a bomb. The threat of such development was a powerful bargaining chip for them. It was much more useful than actually having the bomb because having the bomb would degrade both their bargaining status and their security one as well as both allies and opponents reassessed the threat they posed.

It was only the pigheaded refusal of the Bush Administration to negotiate that forced the North Koreans down what was for them a less productive and more dangerous path.

We should assume the Iranians are not acting in good faith, that they will test repeatedly the limits of the NPT and passivity of the international community. And they may even cross the line from time to time. But it is unlikely that they will stay across the line. Rather as in this case they will, instead of acting openly as they certainly could have, act in ways that deliberately leave their intentions ambiguous. This as with the North Korean case can be very frustrating but it is better than the alternatives, whether that is a refusal to engage or the use of military force.

Mika put her glasses on during Morning Joe it’s so serious! Daddy must
have whispered the official information in her ear. Atleast the state of Pennsylvania is making money off the terrorists’ getting off, and on the Turnpike trying to get close to Pittsburgh to stop their secret solidarity
pact.

There was more truth on Larry King last night with Hugo Chavez, or Michael
Moore the night before!

While it sounds as if Iran is admitting that these facilities exist. Damn amazing that not one not one MSM outlet or even in the blogosphere have I heard or seen anyone ask the question. Where did this intelligence come from? Who or where are these sources from? Have they been verified and by whom?

Can anyone say Niger Documents? Or all of the other “pack of lies” that the Iraq invasion was based on and Judy “I was fucking right” Miller filled the New York Times with

It is beyond logic that so many ascribe to the sentiment that no one except Israel is considered worthy of defending themselves.

At what point does DEfending become OFFensive bullying?

at the non proliferation meetings next week. Think this will be one of the theme songs our of a few nations

Imho, the “N” word has been displaced by the “I” word.

@33

I am referring to Israel. There seems to be an oath of omerta in public discourse when it comes to discussion of Israel.

Said post. Will put it up on my frontpage imminently.

Leen, one of the statements that Bush made was that the US wanted to democratize the Middle East.”They hate us for our freedoms”,yada,yada.

Would not one of the features of democracy be the freedom to protect one’s country and have nuclear weapons,just as Israel ,a democracy does?

Let’s be clear- I would want ALL nations to NEVER have nuclear weaponry at its disposal.

But I am looking at the hypocrisy of the players in this situation.

Excellent post, sir.

Any rational reason Israel should be allowed to possess nuclear weapons?! I would love to hear it, otherwise Israel should be disarmed.

When people were talking about how we should remove Pakistan’s nuclear weapons to prevent them falling into the hands of Al Qaeda, someone asked how you go about disarming a country with nukes.
Got a plan for disarming the Israelis?
(It seems to be difficult enough to prevent a country from arming.)

And the whole world sees the hypocrisy

Any country, which has heard the US demand compliance with its corrupt corporate-driven desires while sternly assuring that no option including the use of nuclear weapons was off the table to achieve its ends, should be forgiven for wanting nukes to protect themselves from the most dangerous fucking monsters on earth: elected American officials who serve the ravenous elites.

thought I had read this somewhere

“The safeguards agreement between Iran and the IAEA requires Iran to declare nuclear facilities as soon as they begin construction. Now, in March of 2007, Iran unilaterally said it did not feel bound by that element of its safeguards agreement. And we know construction of the facility began even before the Iranians unilaterally said that they did not feel bound by that obligation. So clearly this is inconsistent, in my view; obviously a violation of their safeguards agreement.”

Safeguard agreements
http://docs.google.com/gview?a…..kkdTMXltPQ

“

cut the aid

What are sanctions going to do? We saw what a great job they did in Iraq, and what a tragedy they were for the Iraqi people. What’s to say sanctions wouldn’t weaken the opposition there by re-uniting Iranians around the ayatollahs? And if the sanctions include an embargo, how will they enforce it without US ships in the Persian Gulf? It could easily lead to a Gulf of Tonkin incident.

They’re probably blabbing so much about Iran because they don’t want to talk about the economic crisis and how they are at fault for it.

Except our OWN government?

“It’s hard to get a man to understand something when his paycheck depends upon his not understanding it.”….H.L.Mencken

WHY does Israel require aid?

This “incident” brings up a lot of questions.

According to Obama officials, Iran only disclosed the plant when they found out it was not a secret anymore.

At the very least, this strikes a real blow to any Iranian believability regarding ANY aspect of the nuclear activities.

Second, if Obama actually did know about this all along, why he thought any kind of “outstretched hand” policy was going to be worth anything, is a mystery. You don’t treat liars with outstretched hands. Same as you don’t treat Bush with an outstretched hand. Or Cheney with an outstretched hand. You treat Iran the same way as you would treat Bush and Cheney.

If we are going to apply the “serial deception” threshold, that does not bode well for Geneva Convention tribunals relating to the Bush administration….assuming they ever ocur.

That wouldn’t do the trick. Since a lot of the aid is in the form of weaponry, cutting the aid would probably work against the purpose.

(Besides we need to threaten the aid cut-off over the land question, don’t we?)

What the F$$K!!! Why aren’t we talking about the events that took place at the University? Have we truly become a police state? What happened to students in Pittsburgh is just as bad as what happened in Iran after the election! If nothing happens to the irresponsible idiots who teargassed and beat innocent students in Pittsburgh at the G-20 then we are truly a country of people sticking their heads in the sand. Did we learn nothing from Kent State??? Where are you Firedoglake?? Why are we talking about healthcare reform when we aren’t even able to protect our civil rights not to mention our constitutional rights? Screw healthcare reform if our children don’t even have the right to gather in a public forum and express their opinion withiut getting teargassed and beaten. Where are you Firedoglake? These kids need an adult progressive voice! We have become Iran on steroids!
Obviously, I am angry. Why aren’t you guys? I went specifically to you Attackerman, trying to prove to my daughter that there are going to be people who hold these guys’ feet to the fire.

Something needs to be done, said, and people need to be held responsible! See for yourself at the attached link.

http://www.indypgh.org/g20/#k-fbd79b0e2ce5faae

Sorry to harsh you, I’m out.

No response…

Screw it! I am moving my family to Denmark…