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	<title>Comments on: Back off, Jack Keane Wannabes</title>
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		<title>By: MikeD</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15914</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15914</guid>
		<description>Someone needs to check Tom Ricks in this regard.  I thought he was better than this BS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone needs to check Tom Ricks in this regard.  I thought he was better than this BS.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15787</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15787</guid>
		<description>The neocons want their not so little war.  No reason for it just they want it.  

I can&#039;t help thinking that Obama could have headed a lot of this off if he had put someone else other than Gates in as SecDef and if he had fired Petraeus and Odierno, and kept McKiernan and gone for a draw down in Afghanistan.  But more than anything he needed to set the policy.  Crap like this happens when policymakers punt on enunciating clearly and logically what the policy is.  Something, something, al Qaida, sort of, kind of, hum a little here, is not a policy.

And let&#039;s face it.  Gates is not doing such a wonderful job of containment if all this whingeing is emanating from the Pentagon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The neocons want their not so little war.  No reason for it just they want it.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help thinking that Obama could have headed a lot of this off if he had put someone else other than Gates in as SecDef and if he had fired Petraeus and Odierno, and kept McKiernan and gone for a draw down in Afghanistan.  But more than anything he needed to set the policy.  Crap like this happens when policymakers punt on enunciating clearly and logically what the policy is.  Something, something, al Qaida, sort of, kind of, hum a little here, is not a policy.</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s face it.  Gates is not doing such a wonderful job of containment if all this whingeing is emanating from the Pentagon.</p>
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		<title>By: Blub</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15734</link>
		<dc:creator>Blub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15734</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if anybody else followed the story about China&#039;s just-announced military troop strength reductions.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE58T0RA20090930

They just announced that they&#039;re reducing total manpower by 700,000 and refocusing military investment on naval and airforce projection capability (to better focus on protecting their far flung commercial interests and temporarily leaving them without the capability to fight a major land war or, for that matter, to invade and occupy anybody).  Given that they presently have 2.2 to 2.3 million active duty military personnel, the announced reduction would make China&#039;s the world&#039;s second or perhaps third largest all-volunteer military. 

The new number one?  We&#039;re # 1! We&#039;re #1!  We may not have healthcare, civilian jobs, a thriving economy or educated voters, but we will have the world&#039;s largest military - 1.6 million personnel for our paltry 308 million citizens (as opposed to China&#039;s future 1.5 to 1.6 million for their 1.3 billion citizens).  Don&#039;t you already feel that patriotism? USA! USA! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if anybody else followed the story about China&#8217;s just-announced military troop strength reductions.<br />
<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE58T0RA20090930" rel="nofollow">http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE58T0RA20090930</a></p>
<p>They just announced that they&#8217;re reducing total manpower by 700,000 and refocusing military investment on naval and airforce projection capability (to better focus on protecting their far flung commercial interests and temporarily leaving them without the capability to fight a major land war or, for that matter, to invade and occupy anybody).  Given that they presently have 2.2 to 2.3 million active duty military personnel, the announced reduction would make China&#8217;s the world&#8217;s second or perhaps third largest all-volunteer military. </p>
<p>The new number one?  We&#8217;re # 1! We&#8217;re #1!  We may not have healthcare, civilian jobs, a thriving economy or educated voters, but we will have the world&#8217;s largest military &#8211; 1.6 million personnel for our paltry 308 million citizens (as opposed to China&#8217;s future 1.5 to 1.6 million for their 1.3 billion citizens).  Don&#8217;t you already feel that patriotism? USA! USA! ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15731</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15731</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this A-Man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this A-Man!</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15728</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15728</guid>
		<description>AND THE KILLIN&#039; GOEZ ON AND ON AND...

Citizen Spencer Ackerman and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Thank you for this well thought and timely piece of thinkin&#039;.  All of us need to understand just how dangerous a spot we&#039;re in in this country and how much of a threat we pose to the rest of the world as well as ourselves as a result of how much military we have had since the end of WWII and the how dangerously weak we are at the moment since the collapse of the &quot;industrial&quot; in the &quot;military-industrial&quot; complex.

If we remember that standing armies were a mortal sin to our founders and that even in the modern age it is impossible to maintain any large force for any length of time without using it abroad or on your own population, then we begin to see what a big tub of shit we&#039;re in.  No democracy or economy can survive with the amount of military we have had over the last 62 years.  And the &quot;privitization&quot; of the military is, to my mind anyway, a sign that we have reached the terminal stage of our democracy. When corporate contractors are used to gather intelligence, assainate presidents, provide security in a domestic emergency in lieu of the state National Guard which is itself deployed on foreign soil in lieu of federal troops and carry out action orders directly from the Pentagon, well then folks we&#039;re thoroughly and truly fucked.  And that&#039;s where we are at this moment...that&#039;s a fact Jack!

And now I want to hear from all those who have been screamin&#039; that Obama is nuthin&#039; but a corporate shill and a war-monger like all the rest because he won&#039;t committ suicide by walkin&#039; into the firing line mustered by his predecessor...come on let me hear you folks now!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION OUR TROOPS ARE WAITIN FOR US TO END THIS THING!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AND THE KILLIN&#8217; GOEZ ON AND ON AND&#8230;</p>
<p>Citizen Spencer Ackerman and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:</p>
<p>Thank you for this well thought and timely piece of thinkin&#8217;.  All of us need to understand just how dangerous a spot we&#8217;re in in this country and how much of a threat we pose to the rest of the world as well as ourselves as a result of how much military we have had since the end of WWII and the how dangerously weak we are at the moment since the collapse of the &#8220;industrial&#8221; in the &#8220;military-industrial&#8221; complex.</p>
<p>If we remember that standing armies were a mortal sin to our founders and that even in the modern age it is impossible to maintain any large force for any length of time without using it abroad or on your own population, then we begin to see what a big tub of shit we&#8217;re in.  No democracy or economy can survive with the amount of military we have had over the last 62 years.  And the &#8220;privitization&#8221; of the military is, to my mind anyway, a sign that we have reached the terminal stage of our democracy. When corporate contractors are used to gather intelligence, assainate presidents, provide security in a domestic emergency in lieu of the state National Guard which is itself deployed on foreign soil in lieu of federal troops and carry out action orders directly from the Pentagon, well then folks we&#8217;re thoroughly and truly fucked.  And that&#8217;s where we are at this moment&#8230;that&#8217;s a fact Jack!</p>
<p>And now I want to hear from all those who have been screamin&#8217; that Obama is nuthin&#8217; but a corporate shill and a war-monger like all the rest because he won&#8217;t committ suicide by walkin&#8217; into the firing line mustered by his predecessor&#8230;come on let me hear you folks now!</p>
<p>KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION OUR TROOPS ARE WAITIN FOR US TO END THIS THING!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Fish</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15727</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Fish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15727</guid>
		<description>The most interesting thing about this is that it&#039;s becoming a virtual rehash of what the military was saying back during the late 60s and early 70s.  The &quot;loss&quot; of Vietnam was virtually blamed on Democrats because of Watergate (yes, it was)... having been on Active Duty from the mid 70s to Clinton the biggest thing that the military loved to do was blame Democrats for every conceivable ill.  Reality was not an issue... if you were a Democrat, you were wrong.  

Now with a virtual rerun of the unwinnable Asian war going on, well two unwinnable Asian wars, the military is feeling a bit stretched, and they are starting to feel the heat about &quot;winning&quot;, whatever the fuck that means.  

During the Bush Years, the entire &quot;strategy&quot; question was left to the flag officers and a few selected unfortunate civilians post-Rummy for both wars.  There was no guidance from the White House because frankly they had no clue what to do when &quot;shock and awe&quot; did not convert every Iraqi and Afghani citizen into a Jeffersonian Democrat who instantly professed love for George Bush and the State of Israel, the &quot;kumbayaa Middle East&quot; scenario.  

The flag officers who are running both wars have grown used to getting whatever the fuck they want, in terms of money, weapons and time because when both wars started the mood in this country was that if anyone opposed that they were clearly not &quot;patriots&quot;.  Unfortunately, the public has moved beyond that and those flag officers have not.  They will soon start talking, as they did during the Vietnam War, about how their failed strategies are a result of the war being &quot;run out of the White House&quot;.  

Other than a quick, painful withdrawal, there is no easy way to get this two-war mess behind us.  People are starting to realize that the price of the Iraq War alone could have easily paid the bill for health care reform, and that&#039;s becoming an issue (but for the longer term).  

One of the most interesting things is the peripheral sideshow of the newest NeoCon squawkings about the &quot;need&quot; to do &quot;something&quot; about Iran.  I wonder how long it will take before some of the more disaffected flag officers take retirement and join that camp?  Not long, I&#039;m thinking, because the distraction of yet &lt;em&gt;another&lt;/em&gt; war will serve to distract us from the reality of all that has gone wrong before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most interesting thing about this is that it&#8217;s becoming a virtual rehash of what the military was saying back during the late 60s and early 70s.  The &#8220;loss&#8221; of Vietnam was virtually blamed on Democrats because of Watergate (yes, it was)&#8230; having been on Active Duty from the mid 70s to Clinton the biggest thing that the military loved to do was blame Democrats for every conceivable ill.  Reality was not an issue&#8230; if you were a Democrat, you were wrong.  </p>
<p>Now with a virtual rerun of the unwinnable Asian war going on, well two unwinnable Asian wars, the military is feeling a bit stretched, and they are starting to feel the heat about &#8220;winning&#8221;, whatever the fuck that means.  </p>
<p>During the Bush Years, the entire &#8220;strategy&#8221; question was left to the flag officers and a few selected unfortunate civilians post-Rummy for both wars.  There was no guidance from the White House because frankly they had no clue what to do when &#8220;shock and awe&#8221; did not convert every Iraqi and Afghani citizen into a Jeffersonian Democrat who instantly professed love for George Bush and the State of Israel, the &#8220;kumbayaa Middle East&#8221; scenario.  </p>
<p>The flag officers who are running both wars have grown used to getting whatever the fuck they want, in terms of money, weapons and time because when both wars started the mood in this country was that if anyone opposed that they were clearly not &#8220;patriots&#8221;.  Unfortunately, the public has moved beyond that and those flag officers have not.  They will soon start talking, as they did during the Vietnam War, about how their failed strategies are a result of the war being &#8220;run out of the White House&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Other than a quick, painful withdrawal, there is no easy way to get this two-war mess behind us.  People are starting to realize that the price of the Iraq War alone could have easily paid the bill for health care reform, and that&#8217;s becoming an issue (but for the longer term).  </p>
<p>One of the most interesting things is the peripheral sideshow of the newest NeoCon squawkings about the &#8220;need&#8221; to do &#8220;something&#8221; about Iran.  I wonder how long it will take before some of the more disaffected flag officers take retirement and join that camp?  Not long, I&#8217;m thinking, because the distraction of yet <em>another</em> war will serve to distract us from the reality of all that has gone wrong before.</p>
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		<title>By: Airpower</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15725</link>
		<dc:creator>Airpower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15725</guid>
		<description>SecDef Gates is respected by the senior military officer because he fired former SecAF Wynne and Air Force Chief of Staff Mosley.  They know he is not someone to play around with.  

Something else to keep an eye on here:  the strategy proposed by Lt Gen McChrystal for Afghanistan is a counter-insurgency strategy when the original problem (the attacks on Sept 11, 2001) required a counter-terrorism strategy.

Finally, Lt Gen McChrystal&#039;s pending request for &quot;more troops&quot; raises the question &quot;what kind?&quot;.  Put yourself in the position of the top personnel officers of each service.  What specialities would you tap to fill the request?  Artillery personnel?  Weapons engineers?  Sailors?  Radio operators?  Mechanics?  Satellite controllers?  Acquisitions specialists?  None of these will help the situation much.

Lt Gen McChrystal&#039;s report of August 30, 2009 lists &quot;four main pillars&quot; (page 1-3) that seem to require teachers, social workers, precinct workers and other election specialists, politicans, and a sales team.  The Defense Department doesn&#039;t have any of these.  This is Peace Corps work.  The Defense Department needs to get back on bin Laden&#039;s trail and quit trying to build a western nation where one cannot be built.  That may require firing a few more generals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SecDef Gates is respected by the senior military officer because he fired former SecAF Wynne and Air Force Chief of Staff Mosley.  They know he is not someone to play around with.  </p>
<p>Something else to keep an eye on here:  the strategy proposed by Lt Gen McChrystal for Afghanistan is a counter-insurgency strategy when the original problem (the attacks on Sept 11, 2001) required a counter-terrorism strategy.</p>
<p>Finally, Lt Gen McChrystal&#8217;s pending request for &#8220;more troops&#8221; raises the question &#8220;what kind?&#8221;.  Put yourself in the position of the top personnel officers of each service.  What specialities would you tap to fill the request?  Artillery personnel?  Weapons engineers?  Sailors?  Radio operators?  Mechanics?  Satellite controllers?  Acquisitions specialists?  None of these will help the situation much.</p>
<p>Lt Gen McChrystal&#8217;s report of August 30, 2009 lists &#8220;four main pillars&#8221; (page 1-3) that seem to require teachers, social workers, precinct workers and other election specialists, politicans, and a sales team.  The Defense Department doesn&#8217;t have any of these.  This is Peace Corps work.  The Defense Department needs to get back on bin Laden&#8217;s trail and quit trying to build a western nation where one cannot be built.  That may require firing a few more generals.</p>
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		<title>By: TalkingStick</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15724</link>
		<dc:creator>TalkingStick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15724</guid>
		<description>Bing West is an idiot.  

Great analysis Spencer. I have been ambivalent about Gates. Your points are well taken and, yes, I can see if the Secty. O D was an idealog or blatant political appointment it would draw a line with the military and empower those who only think in terms of war. 

Democracy is great.  Let&#039;s continue to try to keep it..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bing West is an idiot.  </p>
<p>Great analysis Spencer. I have been ambivalent about Gates. Your points are well taken and, yes, I can see if the Secty. O D was an idealog or blatant political appointment it would draw a line with the military and empower those who only think in terms of war. </p>
<p>Democracy is great.  Let&#8217;s continue to try to keep it..</p>
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		<title>By: Synoia</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15723</link>
		<dc:creator>Synoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15723</guid>
		<description>When all you have is a hammer, all problems look like nails.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When all you have is a hammer, all problems look like nails.</p>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/10/20/back-off-jack-keane-wannabes/#comment-15722</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4180#comment-15722</guid>
		<description>Yeah.  I don&#039;t like to use the &quot;C&quot; word, but if retired generals like Keane continue to try to subvert the political order, that&#039;s what we got.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah.  I don&#8217;t like to use the &#8220;C&#8221; word, but if retired generals like Keane continue to try to subvert the political order, that&#8217;s what we got.</p>
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