<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t Supersoak Matthew Hoh</title>
	<atom:link href="http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 21:59:36 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: karaka</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17359</link>
		<dc:creator>karaka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17359</guid>
		<description>I actually don&#039;t really agree with him at all. But I still think you&#039;re conflating his relative unimportance (until he was raised to prominence in the Post) with what he was saying, and using the fact of his unimportance to say that what he said was unimportant, which I think is not necessarily true. You can disregard his letter as having &quot;nothing of interest,&quot; particularly since, as you say, Bacevich (and Stewart, and Engel) have perhaps more eloquently and with more legitimacy made similar arguments. But I think we can credit him with holding his own views, whether or not they are compelling. Should he have gotten so much face time, renown? Really, who cares. But just because he got foreign policy famous for five minutes doesn&#039;t &lt;em&gt;necessarily&lt;/em&gt; discount his argument, or his point of view. It simply makes his motives more questionable. 

I think what Spencer was arguing, and what I would be inclined to argue as well, is that what he said did have merit, even if it was only as much merit as any blogger or netpundit might have. It makes sense not to want to engage in his sudden, brief fame, but it does not make corollary sense to disregard his argument as pointless just because he did get sudden, brief fame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually don&#8217;t really agree with him at all. But I still think you&#8217;re conflating his relative unimportance (until he was raised to prominence in the Post) with what he was saying, and using the fact of his unimportance to say that what he said was unimportant, which I think is not necessarily true. You can disregard his letter as having &#8220;nothing of interest,&#8221; particularly since, as you say, Bacevich (and Stewart, and Engel) have perhaps more eloquently and with more legitimacy made similar arguments. But I think we can credit him with holding his own views, whether or not they are compelling. Should he have gotten so much face time, renown? Really, who cares. But just because he got foreign policy famous for five minutes doesn&#8217;t <em>necessarily</em> discount his argument, or his point of view. It simply makes his motives more questionable. </p>
<p>I think what Spencer was arguing, and what I would be inclined to argue as well, is that what he said did have merit, even if it was only as much merit as any blogger or netpundit might have. It makes sense not to want to engage in his sudden, brief fame, but it does not make corollary sense to disregard his argument as pointless just because he did get sudden, brief fame.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17217</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17217</guid>
		<description>If it is true, then every deployed employee of Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, BAE, Raytheon, and Blackwater are also &quot;ranking civilian officials,&quot; Spencer. He was a contractor, not an official, even if his duties were official. You of all people should recognize the difference.

As for everyone else: Hoh would have been a single human interest story and that&#039;s it -- and his mainstream arguments against the war would have remained lost in the buzz of the mainstream -- had Karen DeYoung not blasted &quot;SENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICER RESIGNS OMG&quot; all over the front page of the Washington Post. And you all know it, you just also happen to agree with him (and there are PLENTY of arguments against what he said, but I find that relatively unimportant, *precisely* because he said nothing of interest).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it is true, then every deployed employee of Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, BAE, Raytheon, and Blackwater are also &#8220;ranking civilian officials,&#8221; Spencer. He was a contractor, not an official, even if his duties were official. You of all people should recognize the difference.</p>
<p>As for everyone else: Hoh would have been a single human interest story and that&#8217;s it &#8212; and his mainstream arguments against the war would have remained lost in the buzz of the mainstream &#8212; had Karen DeYoung not blasted &#8220;SENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICER RESIGNS OMG&#8221; all over the front page of the Washington Post. And you all know it, you just also happen to agree with him (and there are PLENTY of arguments against what he said, but I find that relatively unimportant, *precisely* because he said nothing of interest).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Spencer Ackerman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17143</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer Ackerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17143</guid>
		<description>RT karaka@9 and hemlock@8. 

Notice I did not call Koh a &quot;high ranking civilian official.&quot; I called him &quot;the highest-ranking civilian official to resign over Afghanistan.&quot; As far as I know, that&#039;s true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RT karaka@9 and hemlock@8. </p>
<p>Notice I did not call Koh a &#8220;high ranking civilian official.&#8221; I called him &#8220;the highest-ranking civilian official to resign over Afghanistan.&#8221; As far as I know, that&#8217;s true.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: macaquerman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17136</link>
		<dc:creator>macaquerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17136</guid>
		<description>Hoh qua Hoh, ma   Hoh K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hoh qua Hoh, ma   Hoh K</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: karaka</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17134</link>
		<dc:creator>karaka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17134</guid>
		<description>I agree. There are two things here: the value of Hoh qua Hoh, and the value of what he said. His resume and relative position do not necessarily invalidate what he said; but neither should it give him any greater voice. More of note, I think, is the statement itself; and Hoh&#039;s public resignation mostly serves to sensationalize an argument that has been stated elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. There are two things here: the value of Hoh qua Hoh, and the value of what he said. His resume and relative position do not necessarily invalidate what he said; but neither should it give him any greater voice. More of note, I think, is the statement itself; and Hoh&#8217;s public resignation mostly serves to sensationalize an argument that has been stated elsewhere.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mikeyhemlok</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17129</link>
		<dc:creator>mikeyhemlok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17129</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little unclear on what Tiedemann and Foust are suggesting here.  Hoh is a data point.  You can debate how significant a data point, but when the debate is around American military involvement in Afghanistan, then someone who has worked in Afghanistan for the US State Department has a point of view that should be heard.  I certainly want to know what he thinks, if he&#039;s willing to tell me.

Is the suggestion here that he should NOT be heard?  That we should not be entitled to this data point?  That doesn&#039;t sound like an appropriate reaction at all.  And if saying &quot;he&#039;s a nobody&quot; is the best justification you can come up with for refusing to consider the data he provides, that indicates to me that you have some kind of agenda for suppressing his information.

If you&#039;d like to take exception to the things he actually SAYS, say, that there are insurgents fighting the US occupation who would not otherwise be fighting, then for heavens sake, let&#039;s hear it.  But just calling him a nobody isn&#039;t going to accomplish anything...

mikey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little unclear on what Tiedemann and Foust are suggesting here.  Hoh is a data point.  You can debate how significant a data point, but when the debate is around American military involvement in Afghanistan, then someone who has worked in Afghanistan for the US State Department has a point of view that should be heard.  I certainly want to know what he thinks, if he&#8217;s willing to tell me.</p>
<p>Is the suggestion here that he should NOT be heard?  That we should not be entitled to this data point?  That doesn&#8217;t sound like an appropriate reaction at all.  And if saying &#8220;he&#8217;s a nobody&#8221; is the best justification you can come up with for refusing to consider the data he provides, that indicates to me that you have some kind of agenda for suppressing his information.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d like to take exception to the things he actually SAYS, say, that there are insurgents fighting the US occupation who would not otherwise be fighting, then for heavens sake, let&#8217;s hear it.  But just calling him a nobody isn&#8217;t going to accomplish anything&#8230;</p>
<p>mikey</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17127</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17127</guid>
		<description>Talk about moving goalposts: who said anything about &quot;icky liberals&quot; or anything relating to partisan politics? I&#039;m talking about how reporters are hyping a non-story -- regardless of partisan slant (or is it worth mentioning the large conservative consensus on ending the war in Afghanistan?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talk about moving goalposts: who said anything about &#8220;icky liberals&#8221; or anything relating to partisan politics? I&#8217;m talking about how reporters are hyping a non-story &#8212; regardless of partisan slant (or is it worth mentioning the large conservative consensus on ending the war in Afghanistan?).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17126</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17126</guid>
		<description>By the way:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://washingtonindependent.com/60122/orly-taitzs-client-files-a-complaint-against-her&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Captain Connie Rhodes did not want Taitz to try and stop her deployment.&lt;/a&gt;

Since your initial argument was based on Cpt. Rhodes&#039; being picked on by us icky liberals who lionize Matthew Hoh, you should at least admit this key fact and not try to move the goalposts when you think we&#039;re not looking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way:  <a href="http://washingtonindependent.com/60122/orly-taitzs-client-files-a-complaint-against-her" rel="nofollow">Captain Connie Rhodes did not want Taitz to try and stop her deployment.</a></p>
<p>Since your initial argument was based on Cpt. Rhodes&#8217; being picked on by us icky liberals who lionize Matthew Hoh, you should at least admit this key fact and not try to move the goalposts when you think we&#8217;re not looking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joshua Foust</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17119</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Foust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17119</guid>
		<description>When you describe Hoh as a &quot;high ranking civilian official,&quot; you feed the hype that he should be listened to because of his resume -- which you are still overinflating. He was a contractor. By your definition (and the Post&#039;s) every time I am also a high-ranking civilian official in the Department of Defense who resigned in protest over the conduct and management of his program, so therefore my opinions should warrant extensive consideration, segments on Fareed Zakaria&#039;s show, press conferences, and front page profiles.

Obviously, I am a nobody and my opinion does NOT deserve such treatment. My point is, the same thing applies to Hoh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you describe Hoh as a &#8220;high ranking civilian official,&#8221; you feed the hype that he should be listened to because of his resume &#8212; which you are still overinflating. He was a contractor. By your definition (and the Post&#8217;s) every time I am also a high-ranking civilian official in the Department of Defense who resigned in protest over the conduct and management of his program, so therefore my opinions should warrant extensive consideration, segments on Fareed Zakaria&#8217;s show, press conferences, and front page profiles.</p>
<p>Obviously, I am a nobody and my opinion does NOT deserve such treatment. My point is, the same thing applies to Hoh.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Spencer Ackerman</title>
		<link>http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/dont-supersoak-matthew-hoh/#comment-17118</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer Ackerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/?p=4562#comment-17118</guid>
		<description>Cpt. Rhodes didn&#039;t become the object of ridicule because of anything he said about Afghanistan; he became the object of ridicule because of his apparent birtherism. My sense, in having covered both wars, is that any low ranking officer or enlisted&#039;s perspective becomes strategic when the eye of the press is nearby. I think Gen. Krulak had an observation about that... 

I&#039;m not defending the Post&#039;s story or the broader presentation of Hoh. At all. Nor am I passing any judgment on his desire to go to the press, although as a journalist I can hardly blame him for not wanting to bang his head against a channel that he clearly thought was a box-ticking exercise for his superiors. And I obviously wouldn&#039;t know who Hoh is or what he said had it not been for the Post.

But so what? All I&#039;m saying is that the man&#039;s critiques should stand and fall on their own merits. And I include the critiques of &quot;random bloggers&quot; all the time on my blog -- because &lt;em&gt;I&#039;m&lt;/em&gt; a random blogger! Never did I say or imply that Hoh should be listened to and others excluded. It&#039;s a wide world out there; 1000 schools of thought contend; etc. I was alarmed at seeing an important institution in the debate like AfPak Channel declare over Twitter that it was going to ignore him from now on. Whether that was what APC meant or not -- and on reflection, I&#039;m not sure it was -- it strikes me as quite an extreme overcorrection of the original error of the Post playing up Hoh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cpt. Rhodes didn&#8217;t become the object of ridicule because of anything he said about Afghanistan; he became the object of ridicule because of his apparent birtherism. My sense, in having covered both wars, is that any low ranking officer or enlisted&#8217;s perspective becomes strategic when the eye of the press is nearby. I think Gen. Krulak had an observation about that&#8230; </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not defending the Post&#8217;s story or the broader presentation of Hoh. At all. Nor am I passing any judgment on his desire to go to the press, although as a journalist I can hardly blame him for not wanting to bang his head against a channel that he clearly thought was a box-ticking exercise for his superiors. And I obviously wouldn&#8217;t know who Hoh is or what he said had it not been for the Post.</p>
<p>But so what? All I&#8217;m saying is that the man&#8217;s critiques should stand and fall on their own merits. And I include the critiques of &#8220;random bloggers&#8221; all the time on my blog &#8212; because <em>I&#8217;m</em> a random blogger! Never did I say or imply that Hoh should be listened to and others excluded. It&#8217;s a wide world out there; 1000 schools of thought contend; etc. I was alarmed at seeing an important institution in the debate like AfPak Channel declare over Twitter that it was going to ignore him from now on. Whether that was what APC meant or not &#8212; and on reflection, I&#8217;m not sure it was &#8212; it strikes me as quite an extreme overcorrection of the original error of the Post playing up Hoh.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic page generated in 0.252 seconds. -->
<!-- Cached page generated by WP-Super-Cache on 2012-02-17 12:56:49 -->

