Marc Lynch and Gregg Carlstrom provide some twitterborne pushback to my Guanthomsonamo piece. Their point is that Guantanamo has a symbolic value, particularly in the Muslim world, that Thomson doesn’t. “‘Gitmo’ resonates with accumulated history, narrative way beyond rational/legal issues,” Marc observes.
My response was: give it time. I don’t understand why we should believe that creating a new site for indefinite detention and military commissions of, in practice, exclusively Muslim cohort wouldn’t take on the same symbolic value of the old one. Transferring Guantanamo is not the same thing as closing Guantanamo, and I don’t believe people are gullible enough to miss the distinction. On the contrary: if you want to talk symbolism, the propaganda value to al-Qaeda of President Obama continuing with the same injustice as his predecessor is rather underestimated.
I got into some trouble a few weeks ago when I pronounced myself allergic to any debates that are premised on “narrative.” So I won’t do that again with “symbolism.” I get it, I get it, symbols are important. I’m trying to expand my horizons. But but but. Beneath the symbol is the thing-itself. And that first-order thing is always more important than the symbol. Sure, there’s a symbolic value to closing The Place Called Guantanamo. But let’s not let that obscure the greater value — to the Constitution, to American values, to national security, to U.S. foreign policy — of stopping indefinite detention without charge.*
*If you forced me to, I guess I could swallow real hard and accept military commissions as a compromise choice, even though I’ll hate every minute of it and you’ll have to make a really energetic argument to me about the transactional utility of accepting the commissions. Indefinite detention without charge — absolutely not, never, fuck no, this is not North Korea.
Update: Daveed Gartenstein-Ross essentially wrote this whole post in a tweet.



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Spencer, Spencer, Spencer, you are never going to get work in government. If you cant close your eyes to a little total hypocricy, you just aint got it in you. Hey, whats selective torture to it instituted as a normal procedure?
Bless you.
PS. Ding-as-sich. Nice reference.
Spencer, I totally agree with your concluding substantive point.
Instead, I want to take issue with your “the first-order thing is always more important…” point. Tell that to Frank Luntz–and watch him ROTFL(H)AO at you. Tell that to Sarah Palin’s writer, the one who coined the ‘death panel’ rubric–and check with Ezra as to importance of that symbol in the health care debate.
Actually, in political communications, the first-order thing is often of little or no importance, while the resulting manipulation of symbols is the key to victory or defeat.
You’re right, you’re right, and when you’re right you’re right. I just can’t force myself to accept it…
It’s true that I don’t yell as much about Thomson. But that doesn’t mean I like it better. Guantanamo was a symbol of radical lawlessness. Thomson is a symbol of incorrigible lawlessness. I complained about Guantanamo because it disgraced the very idea of America. I hold my tongue about Thomson because there’s just nothing left to disgrace–an America in which indefinite detentions have become bipartisan consensus isn’t one I could ever have loyalty for. I stay here for the same reason most people around the world stay in non-free nations: because all my family and friends are here.
First-order things do have an inalienable value, but modern public discourse is built around interpretation, because reality is complicated enough that no one person can be expert in(or even merely aware of) more than a fraction of it.
Look, it’s actually great that you don’t feel comfortable with narrative and symbolism, because those things are bullshit. You just have to stop yourself before you deny that bullshit is crucial to everything.