Since — what? — 2004, I’ve read thousands of pages of declassified documents, internal investigations, ICRC accounts, survivor testimony and journalistic inquiry about the myriad and sprawling torture apparatus created after 9/11. I’ve written about it a bit. I’ve spent four days in Guantanamo Bay. I’ve seen a quasi-legal Administrative Review Board consider the case of a detainee at Guantanamo. I’ve walked around Disney Drive at Bagram Air Field and wondered if I would be able to even catch a glimpse of one of the detention facilities there. I’ve heard the halt in the voice of a terrified mother of a man detained without charge for 20 months in Saudi Arabia before being transfered to a federal courthouse to face charges of conspiracy to assassinate George W. Bush.
And nothing quite has the power of hearing the words contained in these documents read out loud.
So last night the ACLU (full disclosure: my girlfriend works for the ACLU, although you know from years of my work that I’ve been sympathetic to their efforts long before we met) staged a reading of critical documents from the torture era at Georgetown’s law school. I thought it would be mawkish torture-theater or a cheap holiday in other people’s misery. It turned out to be nauseatingly powerful. Rep. Bobby Scott read from the Bybee/Yoo “techniques” memo of August 2002 while Rep. Keith Ellison interjected with the account Abu Zubaydah provided to the ICRC in 2007 of what happened to him as the result of that memo. I’ve read both of those memos again and again. I wrote a piece in April piecing together those two accounts to pierce the euphemistic membrane that the memo calls “sleep deprivation.” But to hear these words read out loud before you — it has a different narrative power. As does Rep. John Conyers reading Bush’s 2004 speech commemorating United Nations Day in Support of Victims of Torture.
I won’t belabor the point, but I want to add something that rarely gets stated. We tend to speak of torture and indefinite detention as two different things. And it’s true that they’re notionally distinct. But imagine yourself placed into a cell for months or for years and abused, without anyone listening to your pleas to be brought before a judge and read the evidence against you, without any ability to contest or challenge what the interrogators tell you that you’ve done. And it drags on for years and years — just you and the guards and maybe the others imprisoned near you, the days counting down without anything changing. To have to find within you the remainder of your faith in something that will at least allow you to make sense of what has happened to you, if not actually set you free. That is, itself, torture.
It made me wonder, hearing these accounts: what if Jay Bybee or John Yoo or David Addington or John Rizzo or Jim Haynes or Alberto Gonzales or George Tenet or Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney or George Bush had to taste what this was like? The weight of the apparatus they created, bearing down upon them? It should, of course, never happen, because the most important thing in this world is justice, and justice is no less necessary for the iniquitous than it is for the good. But would any American experience this for himself or herself and not immediately see how plainly evil — evil — it is to subject someone to this treatment, no matter who they are or what they’ve done?



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Wow. Great post Spencer!! It’s just so sad, that this subject is basically on the backburner of every politician. And in the end, we are forced by the media to ask “why do they hate us”. One answer is right in front of everyone’s eyes as you summed up beautifully. If there is a heaven and hell, there will be a special place reserved for these people.
Great post. Did this event get video taped?
I was talking to a peace activist who was discussing a concept of a citizen group “volunteering” themselves for incarceration at all the detainee facilities as a sign of solidarity with prisoners and accountability of our country.
Adding my appreciation, Spencer, a most important human truth.
At this time, our nation must consider truth and humanity.
Frankly, it is not the humanity of those whom WE have made OUR enemies, which is in question, it is OURS …
DW
Spencer,
If he event was video taped or if there is a program describing the order the docs were read, it would be important to either start grassroots “viewings” of the video (YouTube’d) or have human rights groups around the country start dong public readings.
Turn this effort into a movement.
Did Hannity ever take up KO on his offer? I think that tells you all you need to know. Deep down, they all know it is evil, but they are being paid to lie, so they perpetuate that lie. Hell, even that drug-addled blimp has said it’s all entertainment. So he knows he’s helping to perpetuate bad things just because Clear Channel pays him millions every month. What does that tell you? That these people have no morals. No scruples.
“Nauseatingly powerful” is right. I was there, and it really did make me feel sick. I also thought the nervous laughter during the rendition of the CSRT was interesting–it was funny, in a sense, but talk about theater of the absurd. At that point, people just wanted to relieve some tension, because it was easier than thinking about how frightening it would be to be standing in a courtroom forced to answer allegations with no specificity that were based on secrets you couldn’t have access to.
For Whom the Bell Tolls….what an outrage. Thank you for your conscience and for excellent writing…think of W mawking/laughing about the young Karla Faye Tucker/horribly abused child…as he prepares to have her executed…along with his no-memory AG
It made me wonder, hearing these accounts: what if Jay Bybee or John Yoo or David Addington or John Rizzo or Jim Haynes or Alberto Gonzales or George Tenet or Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney or George Bush had to taste what this was like?
Excellent question. I suggest we do it and record their reactions in/to the process.
great post Spencer. When I read some of the torture documents often posted over at Emptywheel’s it takes the torture issue and puts the knot right in my stomach. When you read the specifics it becomes far more real much more so than reading the word “tortured”
EW, Mary, Bmaz and so many others take it deeper, make it real, they bring it home as to what our (American citizens) responsibility continues to be. The outrageous crimes that have been committed in our names.
“So last night the ACLU (full disclosure: my girlfriend works for the ACLU, although you know from years of my work that I’ve been sympathetic to their efforts long before we met) staged a reading of critical documents from the torture era at Georgetown’s law school. I thought it would be mawkish torture-theater or a cheap holiday in other people’s misery. It turned out to be nauseatingly powerful. Rep. Bobby Scott read from the Bybee/Yoo “techniques” memo of August 2002 while Rep. Keith Ellison interjected with the account Abu Zubaydah provided to the ICRC in 2007 of what happened to him as the result of that memo. I’ve read both of those memos again and again. I wrote a piece in April piecing together those two accounts to pierce the euphemistic membrane that the memo calls “sleep deprivation.” But to hear these words read out loud before you — it has a different narrative power. As does Rep. John Conyers reading Bush’s 2004 speech commemorating United Nations Day in Support of Victims of Torture.”
following up with Mary’s question is there a way to access that reading? Taped? Wondering if these people will be reading again?
Thank you for this post. We talk, and think, and post and comment about this “stuff” all the time. So it becomes just one more outrage. Thinking and feeling deeply what it really means to the victims is a different exercise entirely. Wrenching and disorienting to those who have a soul.
Wish I could have been there. Check to the ACLU in the mail.
Keep wondering if there will ever be a reading of all of the dead in Iraq? The MSM has been ignoring the dead and injured there for quite some time. Never any accumulative numbers. Have you seen any of our MSM talking heads in Walter Reed lately? Last broadcast I saw from inside was when Chris Matthews went in there I believe in early 2005 and spent several days on the inside of Walter Reed. Five years ago.
The MSM just went along with taking Iraq off the map the last several years
Excellent post, Spencer. thanks for attending writing on this topic.
Folks, there are a lot of us that feel the real reason for all the secrecy is something far more sinister- the concept that 9/11 was a false flag operation. Imagine the consequences if there was a trial in an open court and the taboo subjects started to come out during Discovery…
There’s a conference in the Philadelphia area about this this weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUNXbjO2VaY
“nauseatingly powerful.” When you read or I imagine hear the torture memos read this is exactly what I feel “nauseated” and outrage.
No Addington, Yoo, Bydee, Cheney etc should not be tortured. They should be held accountable then put behind bars to serve time for their very serious crimes
YOu bet your ass. One of the big reasons they do not want to RELEASE AND SHOW THE PICTURES. That is all that was learned in Vietnam, own the media, have them saying exactly what you want and DON’T SHOW THE PICTURES. Oh and don’t count the dead in Iraq or elsewhere and dismiss those who do. (the Lancet)
And we mere citizens are having a difficult time watching what is happening to our country and crying out for change and for someone to do something about it and wonder, why no one does. The magnitude of what those innocent people are experiencing is far, far, greater. And to show what an upside down world we are living in, Obama supports firing 92 teachers, because they need to be held accountable, but not the Bush administration. It is beyond tolerable.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Spencer Ackerman and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thank you Citizen Ackerman, may I have another??!! All Americans must share the terrible weight of the moment in history that our country became an institutionalized torturer. The only other tragedy of such weight was the institutionalization of slavery in the founding document of our Republic. But we here at FDL have a specific responsibility to share that grinding weight and the overwhelming experience of the hearing of those documents because we know, we understand and we realize the awful judgement of history that awaits us if we don’t stand up and fight for justice not only for those who were victims of the torture but for our forefathers whose idea of an American Republic has been eviscerated by these krypto-Nazi bastards and their corporate bosses.
So, Brother Spencer, how do we move forward here, how do we get real political hearings in both houses of congress and how do we get our weak and empty suit of a President to make some gesture that he understands the terrible damage done to our country and the hope for relief for a suffering humanity? If we are to march, it must be en masse with the cries of the victims on our lips crying right up the White House lawn and into the fuckin’ Lincoln bedroom. What do we do Citizen Ackerman…whatever it is let’s do it now.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, PRETTY SOON THERE WILL BE NUTHIN’ LEFT TO FIGHT FOR!!!
The Obama administration names are missing from this list. He has pretty much made indefinite detention without charges a core policy. Has it planned for 10 or 20 of those now in Gitmo iirc.
Well said. And perhaps the most difficult test any of us could undergo, to see if we are able to forgo our thirsts for revenge. To not repeat and propagate the very crimes we abhor. Especially after the having the kinds of first-hand experiences you have had.
“An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind.”
They should restage that and put it one TV
Oh, Spencer–thank you
Spencer: As an aside, this is how you need to frame the fight over the smearing of the lawyers. Forget the racism angle, it gives the Uncle Jimbo a handle to tag you as a leftist ( I read his piece on your twitter fight, and commented, http://unclejimbo.com/blog1/?p=786)
You should portray the law-centric approach as the approach of god-dmned heroes of america, and use the “how dare they doubt theyr service” angle. What happened to Phil Carter, anyways?
On a related note: If John Yoo and Jay Bybee are indicted for war crimes, say in Spain, Germany or Italy, what role can U.S. citizens play in helping deliver them to the court’s jurisdiction?
i thought america did that starting back in 2001…
Oh my… wish I could have been there. ACLU should take this on the road… across the nation.
I too hope there is quality audio or video.
Thanks so much, Spencer.
I’m pretty sure Kafka would call indefinite detention while being abused and humiliated torture. That’s the whole purpose of brutal detention being indefinite: to rasp away at the soul and hope and connection with friends and the familiar. It is meant to break the victim. Withholding any hint of the rhyme, reason or logic behind the detention other than, “We hate and fear what we suspect you stand for” is part of how that takes place.
America, land of the free, home of the brave, where are you now?
War mongers and torturers are subhuman. They create human suffering for fun and profit. They should be in chains. This is obvious to all decent human beings. In my life time “my” government has destroyed two sovereign nations and murdered millions of their citizens for nothing but greed, arrogance and blood lust. Look it in the face y’all.
Our outrage may be visceral, but this sort of comment only prolongs and expands the outrage … hardly a recipe for any resolution. The horror of those who created and prosecuted the frameworks described is not that they are ‘subhuman’ but rather that they are human, just like me. Without acknowledging that fact, we are all left stewing in our own righteous juices … which does precisely nothing for those who suffer(ed) in the grasp of such horrors.
I can’t lay claim to any magic wand that will right the clear and outrageous wrongs, but I can express my gratitude to those who try to expose them.
Just to remind Eric Holder, Mr. Obama and Mr. Emanuel, here’s what a justice system looks like. Germany just tried and convicted four men for domestic terrorism:
And from the BBC on the same story:
Well said, genkaku.
DW
We can, however, invent ways of publicly shunning these men (and at least one woman) in their public lives.
What could public shunning mean in 2010? I would like to hear suggestions.
Spencer, you’ve hit on something very important and not used nearly enough. Psychologists called this “mirroring back”.
When you repeat what someone has said so they hear their own words, only then can they understand the impact their words really have.
In addition, I pointed out to my related winger that taking away someone’s freedom is the most serious power anyone can have over another individual and that’s why we have habeus corpus in the first place. It’s at the core of our judicial system. That’s why our system (ostensibly) decides that it is better to let a guilty man go free than to imprison an innocent one.
When I state this clearly, without political bias, just as fact of freedom vs. no freedom based on a whim, then it gets the wheels turning just a little.
Thanks for attending last night, Spencer! To those of you who expressed interest in video of the event, it can be found here:
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/webcast/eventDetail.cfm?eventID=1034
— Suzanne Ito
Dude your brilliance rivals the stars.
Your consideration of shunning, Palli, is most appropriate.
If the law will not do its duty, sacred, and absolutely necessary to civilization itself, which is, to DENOTE and ENFORCE, the delineation of BOUNDARIES that MUST NOT BE CROSSED and when such boundaries are crossed, to bring about and enforce, swift and CERTAIN CONSEQUENCE.
Consequence is and must be the essential consideration of the law.
A court must consider the consequence of an action which has been perpetrated, but it must also consider the consequence of its, the court’s action or, inaction, if that is what the court decides upon.
If a court chooses to ignore the egregious breach of boundary, then it must not imagine, nor be allowed to imagine, that there is not consequence.
As a nation, we face the all too real possibility that certain courts will not rise to their obligation, neither to the first consideration, nor to the second.
Should this be what happens, then both other branches of government must be understood to be complicit in this refusal to consider consequence.
Then the people, or such people as both dare and understand WHY they must dare to become … CONSCIENCE, must step forward.
What must Conscience do?
First, it must bear witness, it must understand what has happened and also what it means that it has happened. The entirety of “consequence” as best it may HUMANLY be understood.
Second, while it acknowledges what has happened, it also must not be swayed by, it must not listen to arrogant pleas of righteousness in defense of the initiating “action”, nor the suggestion that the “consequence” of the “action” must be mitigated by “necessity” or absolved by the “courage” and “virtue” or even “patriotism” of those who committed the initiating “action”.
Third, conscience may not seek revenge, conscience seeks acknowledgment of responsibility. How may it do this? How may conscience encourage those who must come to understand what they did and why it was wrong?
As long as those who conceived, orchestrated, implemented, permitted, encouraged, allowed, made “legal” and engaged in torture face no accounting before a court representing the rule of law, the only power that may change the ability of those who tortured to move openly, freely and arrogantly among others, is CONSCIENCE. They are ALL, as enumerated above, equally GUILTY of HIGH CRIMES against HUMANITY, against REASON and against JUSTICE, where ever they go, in the whole world, their guilt goes with them, even if no court here, in this nation, dares or deigns to declare that truth. Such evidence as the world already has is quite sufficient to require serious legal inquiry, despite “recommendations” or “conclusions” put forth by the current Executive. These people, the perpetrators, one and all, have power ONLY so long as they have any who will listen to them, however, they loose power, step by step, as person after person, no longer listens, no longer looks, and no longer responds to any …one … of them… those who would torture.
Re. shaming and shunning, a small group of citizens gathers at John Yoo’s house in Berkeley monthly to let him and our community know that he’s a war criminal.
Congress needs to do its job. Will Bobby Scott, who is on the House Judiciary Committee, introduce a resolution calling for Bybee’s impeachment? Here’s a simple suggestion for the text. This is the resolution that drove Alberto Gonzales out of office (according to David Swanson, http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/bybee)
Resolved, That the Committee on the Judiciary shall investigate fully whether sufficient grounds exist for the House of Representatives to impeach Jay Bybee, Judge, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, for high crimes and misdemeanors.
Palli,
I live in Berkeley, as does John Yoo, and I organize a monthly (used to be weekly) gathering in front of his house to educate the community about his role in torture. I would be very interested in any responses you get to your request for ideas for shunning these people. I also work with groups in the Bay Area on accountability for Jay Bybee (who has a lifetime appointment as judge in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals), Jim Haynes (who now works as legal counsel at Chevron) and Codoleezza Rice, at Stanford.
Cynthia_Papermaster@yahoo.com
It’s crucial for the Republicans to get Obama to agree to this. It lets them off the hook by bringing Democrats (well, really only a handful) down to their level. Can’t prosecute them if the prosecutor has done the same.
Once you accept indefinite detention you have to overthrow the government because they’ve violated their oath to uphold the laws and they can no longer be trusted to let someone go if they are found ‘not guilty’.
One thing I can’t figure out, Spencer. You clearly hate torture. You also clearly have much knowledge on the subject. You must know about NAMA, Blacksmith, Mercury, etc. etc. You know what happened under JCTF-180 in Afghanistan in 2001/2002, and you should know who was COS. And the story of Gen. Mowhoush moved from Tiger to Blacksmith where he was tortured, led to believe his 15 year old son had been executed, and finally smothered to death in a sleeping bag with 5 broken ribs. It goes on, and on … far too much to list.
How can you possibly support Stanley McChrystal? He belongs in jail right next to Cheney and Yoo as a man responsible for as much torture under his direct command as any human living today. McChrystal is the one who literally gave the order “Do it!” over and over and over.
Maybe this will catch on. Readings of the torture memos across the country in cafes and bookstores. On college campuses.
Starting to read the torture memos on college campuses, bookstores, in front of court houses, could be huge
I too have read all the transcripts from the captive’s CSR Tribunals and annual reviews. I too am disappointed that almost all those in the MSM have shrunk from reporting the full horror of what has been done in America’s name.
One secret the CIA proved unable to keep was that it recorded Abu Zubaydah’s torture.
One thing I noticed, that has received practically zero coverage, is the testimony of one Guantanamo captive, captive 761, Libyan Ibrahim Mahdy Achmed Zeidan, proved something shocking about how those recordings were used. The CIA’s Director said they were made “for training purposes”. From Zeidan’s 2004 testimony we know the recordings were used to terrorize captives undergoing interrogation.
I know Bush apologists will claim this is simply an instance of a captive lying about torture. But in 2004 Abu Zubaydah was in top secret CIA detention. The only way Guantanamo captives could know that his torture had been recorded is if they were shown those recordings.
Showing recordings of another captive being tortured by his interrogators, to a captive being interrogated is a serious war crime in and of itself. I think this shows that when the DCI said the recordings were “for training purposes” what he really meant is “we used the tapes to train captives to answer our questions — by showing them how far we were prepared to go.”