Depending upon their willingness to demonstrate a straight-up, full on bigotry or a kinder and gentler sort of discrimination, opponents of the Cordoba House project will tell you it’s about Islamists, Muslims, or the victims of 9/11. Their opponents counter that it’s about freedom of religion, the constitutional guarantees of liberty and basic human values of tolerance and diversity.
But here’s the thing. It’s not about Ground Zero, it’s not about the constitution, and it’s not even about religious freedom. Ultimately, its about us. All of us Americans, collectively. We need to decide what kind of society we want to live in. We need to figure out to what extent we want other people’s hatred to determine whether we can actually have faith in the promises and guarantees made to us in the founding documents. We need to decide if we want to follow the example of Ibn Saud, or that of Thomas Jefferson. We need to choose whether we show the world we stand uncaring and powerless before our base fears and tribal hatreds, or if instead we stand up and demonstrate, once again, that America defends her values fearlessly and without reservation.
No matter how you personally feel about Muslims and mosques, you have to recognize that this is a one-way trip, a simple, irreversible binary choice. As there can be no real doubt that the Imam and his congregation have every right to build their mosque where they wish, it comes down to something more nuanced, and much more pernicious. Do you want people, either by dint of their popular majority or their frantic shrieking and hand-waving to have the power to over-rule the basic rights and freedoms granted to all Americans? Do you understand that if it’s just Muslims today, it will be Jews tomorrow and atheists after that and in the end, the battle for the smouldering rubble of the American experiment will be fought between Catholics and Protestants, with the victors laying claim to just another totalitarian theocracy?
It truly makes me wonder. Can even the likes of Gingrich and Palin actually be proud of an America so willing to run away from her core values? In the name of political expediency and tribal nativism, balanced against all the history and sacrifice that has come before? If they actually got their way, and Cordoba House project was blocked, would they see it as a bright and shining moment for America? Or would it be a Pyrrhic victory, with the taste of ashes, as they wondered if it could be a Mosque in New York today, might it be a Church in Kansas or a book in Georgia or a political party in South Carolina tomorrow.
We need to stand up as Americans, collectively, and tell the demagogues and fear-mongers, the politicians and pundits alike, that we’re better than this. Indeed, this is what makes us Americans, and this is why we believe America is important. We need to tell them that its not about how we feel, or what we’d prefer, it’s about what we believe, and ultimately, its about who we are.



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Excellent post. It’s amazing to me that people who declare themselves to be patriots and profess to love this country are so quick and willing to kick our basic values to the curb on this issue. This is a sad and tragic moment in our history, I bet Jefferson is spinning like a top in his grave.
Indeed, most excellent. However…
“Can even the likes of Gingrich and Palin actually be proud of an America so willing to run away from her core values? In the name of political expediency and tribal nativism, balanced against all the history and sacrifice that has come before? If they actually got their way, and Cordoba House project was blocked, would they see it as a bright and shining moment for America? Or would it be a Pyrrhic victory, with the taste of ashes….”
It’s all about political expediency, about Republicans regaining power. I believe that they see no other pathway to power than to create mobs based on identity and demagoguery. I don’t see examples of Gingrich, Palin and their peers showing scruples of any sort in relation to appeals to unreason and the implicit destruction of the country’s founding principles.
(I’m not generally a fan of Enlightenment-era thought, however the guys that built the US _were_ such, and in this instance such thought yielded a strong foundation. Not, sadly, an indestructible one.)
I can’t even believe this is even an issue.
Bravo! You have revealed the crux of the issue. Bigots and opportunists abound. Wish I had your writing skills.
I would call this a “red meat” issue to distract us from the real issue at hand and further cement the Official myth of 9/11 in people’s mind’s. Just like the “controversy” around having the KSM trial in lower Manhattan.
A cultural center is a cultural center and a mosque is a mosque. A decaying old building three blocks from ground zero is not ground zero. ‘Cordoba House’ is wonderfully resonant of a time and a place where Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together in harmony, amid the fountains and gardens and glorious architecture of Moorish Spain.
Cordoba House, on so many levels, could be a wonderful addition to the city. We should welcome it.
Good old America, with it’s endless supply of scapegoats to keep the people scared and in line. “Ahh! Look, Scary communists, black people, hispanics, gays, Muslims!”
Beautifully written! Not only are we on “a one way trip,” we are in the fast lane with a dwindling number of exits ahead! Republicans have no viable ideas. Their one lonely idea since Reagan, supply side economics, could not be more of a failure. But, by far their winningest strategy is FEAR, fear and more fear! It used to be directed at the evil communists. That threat being gone, they were in desperate need of another as a reason for their continued existence as a party.
The Republicans’ associations with the Christian fundamentalists has delayed their ultimate demise for a couple decades. It was only a matter of time before the Republican need for something to fear mated with the fundamentalist Christian belief that their religion is the only true religion.
So, here we go on our one way trip in the fast lane to the next CRUSADES!
Couldn’t agree more about the Republicans. But how do we account for the Democrats? They’ve behaved, for the most part, like corporatists with smiley faces. And lies. Also: Not so sure that, from a Republican/Corporist perspective, that Supply Side has failed. Yes, it failed to create a strong economy in which propsperity is widely shared. And it did weaken the US as a world economic power. But it succeeded in concentrating wealth and that is the goal of Republicrats.
Republicans hate Muslims, Mexicans, gays, blacks and atheists. Which group did I miss?
Women.
HA! Except the grizzly types.
It’s rare that I agree with Michael Bloomberg, but he is right on this issue.
http://www.deciminyan.org/2010/08/americas-choice.html
This piece is accurate but cliched. Of course the right doesn’t give a shit about what the author characterizes as America’s core values. Grow up. Anyone with a high school education can see that Right-wingers have an utterly opportunistic approach to America’s core values, the constitution, the law, and basic human decency. What matters is power, not the truth and certainly not some coherent philosophy of social justice. The more important issue in this WTC Mosque drama is that by opposing this Mosque the U.S. is characterizing 1.2 billion Muslims as being guilty by association for 9/11. This is pure and simple racism. It is also a monumental mistake. The U.S. has a strong and growing tendency to be making enemies around the world. With only 4% of the world’s population and consuming 25% of annual global economic output. The days of U.S. hegemony are numbered. This is what a super power in decline looks like.
Okay, you are preaching to the choir. Do you have some insight as to how we pool our will and generate a louder voice? Flowers and peace signs would not cut through the incompetent press corp. I be more that happy to don a couple assault style air-soft rifles and a sign that says, ” Please, Texas… secede!
This is the issue that cleanly splits-off the 29%ers – the Palin/Angle/Gingrich/Tea Party crowd – from the rest of the Conservatives.
On this issue – the Constitutional Guarantee of an individual’s Right to choose and practice her or his own Religion – almost half the Goopers are solidly with US.
We may not like Bloomberg, but here he is giving a great speech on Religious Freedom that even we on the left can love:
http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/article/mayor-bloombergs-ground-zero-mosque-speech-video/19579997
Just imagine Obama giving his version of that speech…
This issue has the potential to isolate America’s own ‘extremists’ – the ones who believe in a hateful, prejudiced ideology more than committing to get along as equals with the rest of US based on the principles of the Founders.
What should we do?
On this issue, we should go across the aisle and seek bi-partisanship.
“here’s the thing. It’s not about Ground Zero, it’s not about the constitution, and it’s not even about religious freedom. Ultimately, its about us.”
No it is not about us – this post is about your devils perhaps – or perhaps it is just about pushing hot buttons, or perhaps it is just a sermon on being not just tolerant but not listening to the opinion of others in one’s decision making.
The assumption that is your assertion that those opposed to a Mosque 2 blocks from WTC “ground zero” are full of either “straight-up, full on bigotry or a kinder and gentler sort of discrimination” is nonsense.
But opinions are not always the same in a group of people – and I have no problem with that. What I object to is the non-discussion of all sides of the issue, with a post that is a simple write-up of your guess at others motivation, and a knock at those of us that see it as a deliberate slap in the face of the victims but one that must be allowed because we believe in our Constitution. ‘Cordoba House’ is a great name for the project that seeks to reflect the theme of a re-established dominance of Islam by the sword over the rest of the world – but it also reminds us that despite official discrimination in Moorish Spain against the Jew and Christian, they lived together in relative harmony. Our Constitution asks us and allows us to do the same.
OK – I’ve wasted enough time responding to this.
Excellent! I forwarded link to my email list and suggest that fire dogs pass it on, too.
Thank you for your insightful article.
karen
Well put, Hemlok! I echo my friend, Elliot. Many would prefer a society of white blue eyed, blond people practicing my way or the highway style Christianity”. For all of their oft professed love of our Constitution, here we have yet another example of American’s readiness to trash our essential Rights for the sake of base prejudice.
It seems the issue at hand is going on in NYC. Should they secede as well? Or perhaps you are acting on some prejudices of your own?
Right wing talking points. Many innocent Muslim-Americans were murdered on 9/11. But they don’t count as victims to you?
Are you regurgitating the Newt Gingrich meme that there is a sinister world domination implication to the Cordoba House? I think we can deal with that abject nonsense pretty quickly.
http://gotmedieval.blogspot.com/2010/08/professor-newts-distorted-history.html
This is what I find extremely troubling.
“but it also reminds us that despite official discrimination in Moorish Spain against the Jew and Christian, they lived together in relative harmony. Our Constitution asks us and allows us to do the same.”
Official discrimination in the Constitution? Please provide the citation.
I thought about this as I was watching “The Siege” last night (Denzel, Annette Bening, Bruce Willis). Cutting to the chase – terror cells in NYC, army brought in to round up brown men, and people of all colors taking to the streets waving signs and chanting, “No Fear!”
This was in 1998 though (many skyline shots including WTC), and would probably not be made the same way today. Unfortunately.
JMHO, but I read it as our constitution asking and allowing us to live together in relative harmony.
Which is an intolerable thought to some.
You may be right. Maybe the wording of comment 17 is imprecise. But, if you take into consideration the context of the entire comment, I think papau wants to find official discrimination of Muslims (that “We are a christian country,” thing) in the Constitution, and still live “together in relative harmony.”
Don’t fall for the fear.
I don’t agree with all of papau’s comments, but I do agree that assuming the motivation of every person who may see negative aspects of the Cordoba House as racism, xenophobia, and bigotry derived solely from and manifested as right-wing talking points is naïve, narrow-minded, and misguided. Another commenter described it as “red meat” to distract from other more concrete and immediate assaults by our corporatist government. Continuing in that vein as a preface to sharing my opinion, as a vegan and an atheist, my relationships with omnivores and religious people are similar. I don’t live my life in the same way that they live theirs, but I don’t hate them nor would I infringe on their efforts, legally sanctioned here in the US, to satisfy their primal hunger, whether physical or spiritual. I can love someone and still have a negative opinion of a particular aspect of their personality. Most of us can, or we’d cease to exist as a species.
I’ve read a number of comments referring to Republicans/religious right/conservatives, and how it’s not surprising that they oppose this (same ol’, same ol’). But 70% of Americans oppose it! That number goes beyond Republicans/religious right/conservatives, and it is shocking that so many people who don’t fit into that group have so easily fallen victim to the hatred/fear mongering and are ready to abandon our basic principles. Doesn’t bode well for the future.
But I bet a lot of those believe there will be an actual mosque rising over the hole of Tower One.
Where do you get that 70% figure?
CNN poll (it’s actually 68% who oppose).
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/113747-poll-public-strongly-opposes-ground-zero-mosque-
Yes, many people are guilty of hatred or are victims of fear-mongering. For other people it’s just plain tacky, like locating a German consulate in the middle of the former Warsaw ghetto or opening a Catholic outreach center operated by priests to victims of child molestation. Sometimes it’s just simple to say “that’s not a good idea.”
THis is not an issue about bigotry or Constitutional rights. There are any number of mosques inNYC to which no one objected, even an existing Cultural Center some blocks away, whose web site is frantically distancing itself from this project. This is about thousands of American citizens being murdered by Muslims, simply for being American citizens, regardless of their backgrounds and religious beliefs. It is also about the Muslim tradition of building places of worship in a location of conquest, thus the name Cordoba House (which they are now backing off). We all understand they have the RIGHT to build the mosque, 70% of Americans believe they have the RIGHT and the same 70% believe it is not the right thing to do at that location. And I ask you, will you come out with such moral authority on the side of the Greek Orthodox Community of the parish of St. Nicholas, a church that was destroyed in the 9/11 attacks, that has been prevented from re-building by the government and 9 years later is still being threatened by eminent domain if they don’t move. How about standing up for that community as well?
Well not quite. The 9/11 attacks were launched by terrorists, NOT Muslim Americans, who are the ones who want to build Cordoba House. You can’t equate Al Qaeda with Islam, they are not the same thing. And arlowe, if you’re going to say the 9/11 victims were murdered by Muslims, then I guess it’s just as accurate to say they were murdered by men (yep, the terrorists were all Muslims, and they were all men, too.) If we’re going to do that, then I guess it is ok to say that all Catholic priests are child molesters. Ridiculous. I understand that people are having intense emotional reactions to this, but that does not mean they are correct and that their reactions should be honored.
Not to mention the Muslims who worked in the towers or were transiting through who were killed in the attack.
@ 34, so if this is to be an exercise in “outreach” why not understand the cultural underpinings that are bringing about the”intense emotional reactions” and move the center as per Gov. Paterson’s offer? and @35 I never indicated Muslims were not also killed in the attacks, it was clearly not discriminatory murder; because Muslims were also murdered does not justify the attacks, nor does it justify the building of a victory site.
Why a Government based on Reason and Logic – over Beliefs held on Faith?
The Big Three mono-theistic Western Religions all claim that (the same) God favors them, as follows -
Judaism – “We are the Chosen People, and everyone else isn’t.”
Christianity – “Jesus is the Only Way, and everyone else is wrong.”
Islam – “Moses and Jesus were just Prophets, but Mohammad was God’s last Prophet.”
It’s not difficult to see that these ‘assumptions’ of *Faith* are Mutually Exclusive – setting-up a Last Man Standing scenario in order to ‘prove’ whose version of My God is Bigger than Your God is *right* – based entirely on Blind Faith – there is no way to ‘prove’ the Beliefs of any of these Religions based on present evidence of any kind.
Therefore, papau, unless they are restrained by secular Reason and Logic – the inherently bigoted Religions will toil very hard to Kill each other in the name of their common God.
@ 34 considering a number of Muslim Americans have participated in attacks on Americans or attempted to perpetrate attacks on Americans, there is a legitimate level of suspicion.
How many? five or six? ten? two dozen?
Why not move the center? Because IT’S AMERICA! Do we stop honoring our commitments to liberty and freedom because it makes some people uncomfortable? Lots of people are uncomfortable that we allow abortions, maybe we should just move that medical procedure to another country (or back alleys like in the good old days) because some people are upset? Everyone is entitled to their opinions/feelings about this, but in the end, as you say, “We all understand they have the RIGHT to build the mosque.” So we want to extend the right, as long as we can be sure that people will choose not to act on it if some of us complain loudly enough? Sorry, I disagree.
So now we have to be suspicious of all Muslims because some of our fellow Americans are nuts? There are plenty of Christian whackos, but I’m not suspicious of all Christians. I’m choosing not to live in fear and suspicion, thanks. Like marymccurnin, I too, would like to know how many Muslim Americans perpetrated or attempted to perpetrate attacks on other Americans. I guess if we can find one bad apple in any religion, we should toss out the whole barrel? But as I said, it’s America, and we are all entitled to our opinions.
Well, I can think of one in the Sacramento area a couple of years ago. A young man who was of borderline intelligence was convicted of getting terrorist training in Pakistan (?).
No they don’t. There are land-use and zoning laws that would prohibit them from building in other places (just as they would prohibit Jews, Christians, Wiccans and Mithraists), and that raises no First Amendment issues (or none that haven’t been settled). It so happens that the area that they intend to build in is so zoned so as not to restrict it. So the question of their right to build (really a privilege) is not even in issue. They could pull the permits and start construction tomorrow, and that would be that.
Well, except for the screaming and wailing and chest-beating, that is entitled to at least as much First Amendment protection as the Muslims’ right to practice their religion. But the Republicans would just go ahead under comparable circumstances (if one can envision such comparable circumstances) and get away with it. Of course, there would be some reactive activities…but that is what NY has a PD for, and the FBI a civil rights unit.
This is not a First Amendment question. It’s a property rights question. Does the right wing (and 70% of Americans) want to put an end to, or limit, one’s right to use one’s property as one sees fit?
So, the community center is actually a “victory site.” I think you have been duped by Newt Gingrich for the purpose of promoting agitation and fear. Those are the only things Republicans have left to run on. Here is what a real historian has to say about “Cordoba.” I dare you to read it.
http://gotmedieval.blogspot.com/2010/08/professor-newts-distorted-history.html
The only “victory site” at Ground Zero is the gaping hole still there after nearly nine years, and the shitty incompetent way the crime scene was contaminated and then hastily destroyed.
The right is certainly exploiting the fear factor of this issue for all it’s worth- and they will ramp that up as the election gets closer. Since they are losing the battle on same sex marriage, this is their new red meat. And the US has a long, inglorious history of xenophobia which is currently being so vividly displayed in Arizona. All of this is true, and it’s why I support the building of the community center (all anyone needs to do is call it the “ground zero mosque” to raise all the fear and righteous indignation anyone could want) But as a downtown New Yorker, let me tell you it’s not an easy issue. Nine years later, the wounds are still quite raw.
The best comment, of course, was Stephen Colbert’s- that building a mosque near Ground Zero is like building a Catholic church next to a playground. There has been a lot of talk of the Muslim desire to conquer the world. No doubt, that is just what the crazy, evil jihadists are after-they won’t be happy until we are all either dead or under Sharia law. But what about Christian missionaries- is there a single corner of the globe they haven’t infected? How many millions did they wipe out in the name of God? The problem isn’t just Muslims, it’s religion, period. I agree with radiofreewill- each of the major world religions operates under a “we are the chosen people and you’re not” principal. It’s a starting point from which no good can come. The only good things religion has brought us is some days off from school and some really lovely architecture.